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Old 29-11-2017, 12:11   #91
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

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Originally Posted by jmorrison146 View Post
Check out a used Jeanneau 36i. Big enough to live aboard, small enough to single-hand, well built, reliable Yanmar diesel, and a great sailing boat.
Thanks for the tip, will keep it in mind when I get to the boat search stage.
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Old 29-11-2017, 13:29   #92
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Quote: "I need to learn how to sail properly first"

Hello Wendy - good to see you are still here :-) Let me offer you another "contrarian" view ;-0):

Operating in the Bay Area (as distinct from "going to sea", you do
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Old 29-11-2017, 13:40   #93
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Quote: "I need to learn how to sail properly first"

Hello Wendy - good to see you are still here :-) Let me offer you another "contrarian" view ;-0):

Operating in the Bay Area (as distinct from "going to sea", you do
Thanks, still here, still a long way to go (hopefully not too long) before I get to where I hope to get to - on a boat, and able to sail it. Not limited to the Bay Area (one out of a few under consideration).
My next post will be off this thread, on a new one, regarding the merits of certain sailing schools...stay tuned. Meanwhile, happy to accept another contrarian view (I'll collect them).
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Old 29-11-2017, 14:19   #94
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

To continue:...you do NOT need to "learn how to sail properly" before you buy a boat. The reason for that is that within the Golden Gate you can easily motor from one slip (the one where the boat lies when you buy it) to another slip (the "live aboard" slip you've secured before you plunk down the money for the boat). That is not "sailing" by my definition.

The basic boat handling required to do such a little trip is, in fact, dead easy, and I'm quite sure that for that bit of your future, you will have no difficulty in finding a friend who already knows how to do it, a friend who can either to teach you to do it, or do the job for you with you looking over her/his shoulder.

Once that is out of the way, there are a coupla other things you should before you begin to "learn how to sail properly":

1) learn to motor the boat safely so you can get in and out of marinas with some aplomb and without hitting any hard, expensive stuff.

2) learn to use your ground tackle so you don't have to use marinas if you don't want to. Do this using your engine, which you've already learned to do. The fancy stuff of mooring under sail will come later :-).

3) Learn to handle your canvas. Don't pay a lot of attention to racing types who bang on about sail trim. You won't be racing. You just need to make the boat move under sail. Once you've got the canvas up, the boat will move whether you want it to or not ;-). From there on, having given yourself lotsa sea-room under engine, you just play with the trim till the rather simple and obvious principles become familiar to you.

As for "learning to sail properly", remember that "properly" is defined differently by different people. Remember also that for 20% of the effort required to reach perfection (whatever that may be) you get 80% of the results :-). For quite some time into the future, after you have the boat, what you are after is 'ADEQUACY" - not perfection.

Adequacy for messing about the Bay Area is, I dare say, much like adequacy for messing about in the Salish Sea. "Cruising" in the Salish Sea is really just a series of "day sails" where, instead of returning to your own slip at day's end, you put into a different marina or anchorage.

In my callow youth I taught many a totally green novice to "cruise", i.e. day-sail twixt various marinas and anchorages, in a 65 foot ketch. Now, teaching utter greenhorns really means that you are, in reality, "singlehanding", since the greenhorns know nothing, and cannot make a real contribution if the balloon goes up. I tell you this only to impress on you that single-handing a boat that is bigger than the one I gather you are intending to buy, is not difficult. It merely requires a bit of foresight and, of course, the caution not to go anywhere near circumstances that could either make your own task unpleasantly difficult or frighten the lubbers.

All the best

TP
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Old 29-11-2017, 14:40   #95
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
To continue:...you do NOT need to "learn how to sail properly" before you buy a boat. The reason for that is that within the Golden Gate you can easily motor from one slip (the one where the boat lies when you buy it) to another slip (the "live aboard" slip you've secured before you plunk down the money for the boat). That is not "sailing" by my definition.

The basic boat handling required to do such a little trip is, in fact, dead easy, and I'm quite sure that for that bit of your future, you will have no difficulty in finding a friend who already knows how to do it, a friend who can either to teach you to do it, or do the job for you with you looking over her/his shoulder.

Once that is out of the way, there are a coupla other things you should before you begin to "learn how to sail properly":

1) learn to motor the boat safely so you can get in and out of marinas with some aplomb and without hitting any hard, expensive stuff.

2) learn to use your ground tackle so you don't have to use marinas if you don't want to. Do this using your engine, which you've already learned to do. The fancy stuff of mooring under sail will come later :-).

3) Learn to handle your canvas. Don't pay a lot of attention to racing types who bang on about sail trim. You won't be racing. You just need to make the boat move under sail. Once you've got the canvas up, the boat will move whether you want it to or not ;-). From there on, having given yourself lotsa sea-room under engine, you just play with the trim till the rather simple and obvious principles become familiar to you.

As for "learning to sail properly", remember that "properly" is defined differently by different people. Remember also that for 20% of the effort required to reach perfection (whatever that may be) you get 80% of the results :-). For quite some time into the future, after you have the boat, what you are after is 'ADEQUACY" - not perfection.

Adequacy for messing about the Bay Area is, I dare say, much like adequacy for messing about in the Salish Sea. "Cruising" in the Salish Sea is really just a series of "day sails" where, instead of returning to your own slip at day's end, you put into a different marina or anchorage.

In my callow youth I taught many a totally green novice to "cruise", i.e. day-sail twixt various marinas and anchorages, in a 65 foot ketch. Now, teaching utter greenhorns really means that you are, in reality, "singlehanding", since the greenhorns know nothing, and cannot make a real contribution if the balloon goes up. I tell you this only to impress on you that single-handing a boat that is bigger than the one I gather you are intending to buy, is not difficult. It merely requires a bit of foresight and, of course, the caution not to go anywhere near circumstances that could either make your own task unpleasantly difficult or frighten the lubbers.

All the best

TP
Thanks for filling in the missing details (I did suspect your previous post was not quite complete). Much good advice, well received. Yes, of the subjective nature of "sail properly" - for me it will most likely be exactly as you describe, at least for quite a while - just being able to maneuver the boat safely in tight spaces for a start (and keep out of trouble).

The size of the boat I have my heart set on? Not under 40 feet, really (though some have suggested between 30 and 34, and my ideas may change), so your words are encouraging. Currently looking at this one (nowhere ready to buy yet, but looking and dreaming doesn't hurt) - 10 feet and about $50,000 over imagined budget:

Sailboat Listings - La Paz Yachts

Probably highly impractical, but she's beautiful.
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Old 29-11-2017, 15:21   #96
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Welcome aboard the CF Wendy Ann. And you are already among the most attentive OP'ers ever !

I've just read the thread and lots of advice from people way more experienced than I am. But some comments that may be useful from someone tall and in their late 60's. We chartered first but that was largely to orient the Admiral - when she loved it, we moved on to buying.

But I'm 6'6" and headroom was an issue. I don't expect to stand up straight everywhere inside, but one spot is necessary. Bunk length way more important. Hence the Hunter 38. But increased headroom usually goes with a higher freeboard and that seriously affects getting on and off the boat. The Admiral is 5'3" and it's really difficult for her, especially with wonky knees. We have a walk-through transom and that makes it possible to get on and off the boat at anchor - into dinghy or kayak.

And the kids/grandkids coming to visit. How much do you go through to make it perfect for them? That's something we've talked about as the urge to get another boat strengthens. Our 38 goes from spacious to crowded when they arrive. But they're happy to visit for holidays ( and us to have them) and we all make do. Most kids love the water and a boat is a perfect platform as long as they can get back onto it reasonably easily. From our perspective, plan around your own needs/wants keeping it possible for the family to join you for shorter stays.

Bigger issues now when the family is aboard are managing the battery bank and the fresh water supply. Nobody charges electronics on the boat batteries any more - I won't let them, or we can't sit any length of time at anchor. $100 Cdn bought 2 huge power banks on Amazon. Fresh water capacity is something hard to change on most boats without a water maker, and big capacity is something we want on the next boat.

We have an in-mast furling main and it makes a lot of sense to me as a casual cruiser. I can handle it solo and never leave the safety of the cockpit. The more I age, the less I want to get up on a heaving deck. The discussions here on the CF have made me appreciate how to use it more effectively. And I've gotten over having it jam on me a couple of times in the first year - technical fix and now less operator error. TP talked about risk management - risk of a jam [small] versus risk of getting on a heaving deck [way bigger imo].

We've also appreciated that everything on a boat is a trade-off, without spending more $$ than we'll ever see !

I may be a boy but have probably less innate mechanical skills than you seem to have. But I've learned the basics [ thanks Power Squadron] and my sailing buddy is a millwright by trade - learned way more from him. I have a mechanic and electrician that I trust for bigger jobs, and now look after all the routine maintenance myself. Mr Google and the CF itself can solve a lot of "issues" for you easily.

And I've never climbed a mast, and don't intend to ! I hire a rigger for regular inspections and necessary work - he climbs, I help. If something happens at sea, I guess I'm screwed - but then it's risk management as TP says.

Have fun finding your perfect boat. I can handle our 38 by myself and have no qualms about something a bit bigger. Bigger may handle the ocean a bit better imo but some are way easier to sail short handed than others. Just another compromise.
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Old 29-11-2017, 15:41   #97
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Ann View Post
Thanks for filling in the missing details (I did suspect your previous post was not quite complete). Much good advice, well received. Yes, of the subjective nature of "sail properly" - for me it will most likely be exactly as you describe, at least for quite a while - just being able to maneuver the boat safely in tight spaces for a start (and keep out of trouble).>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
TP's post was extremely useful and helpful. Glad you "got it."

I know this may be putting the cart before the horse, but once you get to sail, this is by far the best (and as you get to know us here, you'll find I rarely use that word, ever...) sail trim manual I have read and I've read most of them:

https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod...im+Users+Guide

Always good for an Xmas gift suggestion from your family.

Written in layman's language, easy to understand, takes all the voodoo outta what you do!
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Old 29-11-2017, 15:51   #98
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Oh, my dear :-0) !!! The ketch I taught on was a slightly larger version of this boat! Billy Garden was one of my (very few) heroes. His eye for a pretty sheer and a handsome upperworks was, IMO, quite unequaled. His technical competence likewise. Find a book of his designs and study them carefully. He ranks IMO with the “greats” of the profession, such as Nat Herreshoff of a previous generation. Ted Brewer, who worked for Bill Luders (another of the “greats”) for a number of years, and who was a protegee of George Cuthbertson of C&C fame (obit here: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle36680910/) is a friend of mine, and though we are both in decline we still hoist the occasional yard of ale at the local branch of the Royal Canadian Legion. Willy Garden owned, in his last years, a little island just off Sidney on Vancouver Island, from which he operated. He, in his celebrated whimsy, called it “Toad's Landing”.

One day, nigh on fifty years ago, one of my university colleagues poked his head into my office and said “I've bought a boat. Can you teach me to sail?” Said I: “Normally my answer to that question is 'Yes”, but in your case I'm not so sure — so let's find out!” The boat turned out to be an exemplar of Billy Garden's “The Admiral's Cat”, a little 26-foot catboat. Absolutely lovely to look at, and a pleasure to sail. So my friend and I went “cruising”, and as we were nearing Sidney — blow me down, there was a cat! Now the definition of a sailboat race is 'two sailboats in sight of each other', so the race was on! The other boat was ANOTHER Admiral's Cat, specifically Billy Garden's very own Admiral's Cat, a toy he kept to play with when occupied with weightier matters. Well, it was Billy's design and Billy's highly tricky, tidal home water, so I got well and truly trounced :-0)!!

Well, duty calls, so my comments on the Formosa will have to wait a few hours, but you are on the right track. There are cautions, however, that I should feel remiss if I didn't put before you.

À la prochaine


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Old 29-11-2017, 20:32   #99
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Ann View Post
The size of the boat I have my heart set on? Not under 40 feet, really (though some have suggested between 30 and 34, and my ideas may change), so your words are encouraging. Currently looking at this one (nowhere ready to buy yet, but looking and dreaming doesn't hurt) - 10 feet and about $50,000 over imagined budget:

Sailboat Listings - La Paz Yachts

Probably highly impractical, but she's beautiful.
Wow, getting ready for first time at bat and you are swinging for the fence! Oh it's practical, but a handful! You'll need a couple of helpers, or one really good one, I'd say.
I know it is early yet, but keep in mind to figure in the cash flow needed to realistically maintain whichever boat you choose too.
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Old 29-11-2017, 21:20   #100
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Quote: "Probably highly impractical, but she's beautiful."

Uhm...yes. And no. Well, actually it's more like "no" and "yes". It would NOT be impractical for you, except perhaps from the financial point of view, and only you can determine that! And, yes, she IS beautiful! :-)

So let's begin by parsing the marketing fluff. We can pick up on the "technical" stuff later.

Yacht World Number: 3067674
Located in La Paz, BCS, Mexico
Year: 1975
Hull Material: Fiberglass
The Formosa 51’s *designed by the legendary William Garden have
earned a solid reputation as one of the finest, safest, and most
comfortable cruising boats to be found around the world
No argument with that at all. Accepted wisdom among knowledgeable yotties.

Lady Midnight is the finest example of this we have seen. She is currently
owned and meticulously maintained by one of the most knowledgeable
captains in the business.
Really? And who might he be?

Just returned from Puerto Vallarta and the
southern coast of Mexico,
That's good. So have many other boats :-)

everything on board has been checked out and
is in good working condition.
By whom, and sez who? One of our members who goes by “Boatpoker” is a professional surveyor. When MB and I bought TP she came with a survey that I, and more importantly our insurance underwriters, considered adequate. (there is that word again :-)!). But Boatpoker has a wonderful “model survey” somewhere here in the archives that I printed out and gave to MB. “'Ere!”, said I, '” 'Ere is a survey that shows the standard to which we should bring TP as we go along!” Find it, print it out, learn from it and use it as a guide for your own personal inspection of this or any other boat you may contemplate buying.
*

She is truly turnkey and ready to
continue cruising now.
Well, yes, but if are contemplating blowing a hunnert'n'fifty grand on a boat, you can probably spare a dollar or two for a little trip to LaPaz to see for yourself. But I will admit that the pics look good :-)


More tomorrow :-)

TP
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Old 30-11-2017, 15:10   #101
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Thanks Dave - Short on time (work, work, work)...doing the 'quick reply' thing here (never tried that before so not sure how it'll come out in the wash). Will catch up with recent posts/comments and reply properly (there's that word again) hopefully tomorrow, or if not, then Saturday....
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Old 30-11-2017, 15:11   #102
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Thanks TP - Short on time (work, work, work)...doing the 'quick reply' thing here (never tried that before so not sure how it'll come out in the wash). Will catch up with recent posts/comments and reply properly (there's that word again) hopefully tomorrow, or if not, then Saturday.... (Also getting lazy and copy/pasting. ugh).
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Old 30-11-2017, 15:13   #103
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Thanks Don - Short on time (work, work, work)...doing the 'quick reply' thing here (never tried that before so not sure how it'll come out in the wash). Will catch up with recent posts/comments and reply properly (there's that word again) hopefully tomorrow, or if not, then Saturday.... (Also getting lazy and copy/pasting bits. ugh). .....In re Cash Flow - I'm hoping my 'ship comes in' )
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Old 30-11-2017, 15:16   #104
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Thanks Stu! - Short on time (work, work, work)...doing the 'quick reply' thing here (never tried that before so not sure how it'll come out in the wash). Will catch up with recent posts/comments and reply properly (there's that word again) hopefully tomorrow, or if not, then Saturday.... (Also getting lazy and copy/pasting. ugh).
Book suggestion welcome (compiling a "I would like....." list for Christmas!
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Old 30-11-2017, 16:02   #105
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Re: Old broad introducing herself...

Only thing more expensive to own than a big boat, is a big OLD Boat.
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