New to sailing/cruising

[Frase]

Hi all,

I'm Fraser, Brit expat in Canada looking to move back to the ocean. I'm sure I'm not the first to post that I plan to learn to sail this summer with the view to buying and living aboard a boat. These forums have been a mine of useful info so far and I'm hoping to learn a bunch.

Aside from sailing lessons I'm hoping to learn marine diesels, electrical, outboards, etc before I take the plunge with a boat.

Meantime if anyone has any hot tips for books I can be reading to learn the basics of sailing and living aboard I'd be grateful.

Best,

Fraser.

[boatpoker]

Been living aboard in Ontario since 94' (when not cruising south). Drop us a line if you have specific questions.

In the meantime, suggest you start with this ...
Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

[TrentePieds]

Hello Fraser :-)

Welcome to our forum.

The basics of sailing a boat are so utterly simple that you don't need a book to learn them. But google up "learning to sail", and dozens of book titles will pop up. Any one will be as good as any other.

Now, learning to sail a boat WELL is a kettle of fish of a different colour. And while reading books on the subject may help, the only way to do it is to do it :-)!

How you get aboard a boat so you can learn to sail depends to a large extent on just where you are located. You say you are in Canada, but getting to go sailing Halifax, is different from getting to go sailing in Vancouver. Not to mention in Quesnel BC or in Vermillion AB!

You also have to have a clear idea of what KIND of sailing you want to do. You say you want to LIVE on a boat. That is NOT the same thing as SAILING a boat. If LIVING aboard a boat is your objective, you will no doubt find that a power boat will serve you better than a sailboat. And if your objective of living aboard a boat is driven by a desire, let alone a need, to save money, you will find that going down that road will not serve you well at all.

On this forum we have the expertise to help you in many, many ways, and we will gladly do so. But to do it we need you to tell us with rather great precision just what it is you expect ownership of a boat to do for you.

Again: Welcome, and all the best to you.

TrentePieds

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Frase

Hi all,

I'm Fraser, Brit expat in Canada looking to move back to the ocean. I'm sure I'm not the first to post that I plan to learn to sail this summer with the view to buying and living aboard a boat. These forums have been a mine of useful info so far and I'm hoping to learn a bunch.

Aside from sailing lessons I'm hoping to learn marine diesels, electrical, outboards, etc before I take the plunge with a boat.

Meantime if anyone has any hot tips for books I can be reading to learn the basics of sailing and living aboard I'd be grateful.

Best,

Fraser.

Where are you in Canada?

Start with just about any book by Nigel Calder for system advice.

For living aboard, a couple of Canadians: Lisa Copeland and Fiona McCall/Paul Howard

[Frase]

Thanks for the replies and the survey 101 link will be gold once I start peeking at my first few boats.

I'm in the BC interior (so points for mentioning Quesnel!) and contemplating a move to Vancouver Island. Originally had planned to kayak the Inside Passage but that idea is morphing into sailing the Passage and exploring the Islands around Vancouver Island... I think the living onboard thing is just an idea to facilitate the exploring. Depending on how I get on it may be a seasonal/summer only thing. I've read multiple times about the long list of continuous expenses involved in boat ownership, so was not really expecting it to be cheap accommodation.

Boat Owners' mechanical and electrical manual is on my list of books to purchase, I'll look up the other authors. Many thanks for that.

Best,

Fraser.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Frase

Thanks for the replies and the survey 101 link will be gold once I start peeking at my first few boats.

I'm in the BC interior (so points for mentioning Quesnel!) and contemplating a move to Vancouver Island. Originally had planned to kayak the Inside Passage but that idea is morphing into sailing the Passage and exploring the Islands around Vancouver Island... I think the living onboard thing is just an idea to facilitate the exploring. Depending on how I get on it may be a seasonal/summer only thing. I've read multiple times about the long list of continuous expenses involved in boat ownership, so was not really expecting it to be cheap accommodation.

Boat Owners' mechanical and electrical manual is on my list of books to purchase, I'll look up the other authors. Many thanks for that.

Best,

Fraser.

There are some great sailing schools on the coast.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Fraser.

[desodave]

Welcome aboard from Vancouver Island. You might also find some sailing opportunities on the larger BC lakes, especially Okanagan. I'd suggest that you read Pacific Yachting magazine to acquaint yourself with boating the BC (and Washington) coast. Lots of suggestions about places to visit and news about the industry.

[chris mac]

Welcome to CF from an Alberta boy. I'm currently living aboard in bahamas. But I sure enjoyed doing some charters around Vancouver Island and the gulf islands.
You have a lot of learning and playing opportunities there! Enjoy
For books, you cant go wrong with nigel Calder. Especially his stuff on electrical. Books on knots are good to have around, as well as languages for your expected cruising areas.

[TrentePieds]

Fraser said: "...the survey 101 link will be gold once I start peeking at my first few boats."

If I may offer some more pointers :-): Sailboats are utterly simple devices unless you chose to make them otherwise. As you are new to seafaring you should, IMO, begin with a boat that is cheap to buy. Most people can find the money to BUY a boat. The difficulty lies in affording the expenses involved in KEEPING a boat. Feeding and keeping yourself will not demand significantly more money when living aboard than it does when living on land once you are past the cost of acquisition of "foulies" and life jacket and such.

A excellent starter boat is a 50 year old Columbia 26. Because it sails so well, I think it is superior to, say, the Catalina 27. You should be able to find one of those in ADEQUATE condition for, say, $8K

To keep a 30-foot sailboat I place $1,000/month in a separate boat account. That is more than enough for the recurring monthly expenses, but I do it because I build up a fund thereby so that there will be cash in the account when necessary for the renewal of sails, etc. etc. Sails should be considered expendables!

You can easily find a 30 foot boat, which by my lights is the "sweet spot" for, say, $15K. 30 feet is, IMO, the sweet spot because it is (just) big enuff for man and maid to "live" in for some weeks, even several months at a time. yet small enuff not to be too hard on the retirement budget. But "living" aboard a 30-foot boat is, however you slice it, camping, and it is a very different thing from living ashore!

Remember that the HULL of a modern sailboat made from GRP is basically indestructible. Thus 50 year old hulls can be quite as good, and are sometimes better, than brand new hulls! Any damage to a GRP hull is easily, although not necessarily cheaply, mendable. However, if you learn to work with GRP, you can certainly do all common repairs yourself just for the cost of materials. Everything OTHER than the hull should be considered "consumable". It WILL wear out and require replacement. And rope ain't cheap :-)

Getting underway, making the passage and coming to anchor or alongside each day needs to be accomplished in six or eight hours, lest it become too much like real work. Therefore the distance you can cover in a day's voyage in a 30 footer is about 30 nautical miles. Therefore you will not as a retiree have enuff time in you remaining life to see every corner of this coast :-)!

Given the topography of this coast and the multiplicity of microclimates and the vagaries of tides and currents (which can run faster than a 30-footer's top speed under power) you need a decent engine. A 30 footer will have a displacement of about five tons, call it six tons laden. In our waters you should therefore have an engine of about 4 x 6 = 25HP.

As for the rig, any KIND of rig will do, but make life easy for yourself and keep your costs down while keeping the boat's sailing ability as good as you can by eschewing roller furling sails. In our benign waters just are better off with "hank on" sails.

Well, that should set you thinking for now :-) For an excellent treatise of what sailing yachts are all about, interspersed with excellent discussions of particular designs from quite small to rather big, go to a second hand book store and get The Proper Yacht by Arthur Beiser. Or get it via HolyMotherNet. The book is 50 years old, but a classic. A quite new book that is not to be sneezed at despite all the pretty pictures in it is Sailing by Robby Robinson. It has easy to digest cameo discussions of every aspect of sailing.

All the best :-)

TrentePieds

[Adelie]

Welcome.

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.


Regarding intro to sailing, the book I would recommend is at home and I don’t recall the author. Will try to look for it this evening.

Cruising is distinct from sailing. I would suggest you get a laser and sail for 2-4hr every other weekend for 6mo or so. Find a racing group maybe. This will teach you to sail well.

I’ve met several cruisers that were mediocre sailors and it impacted things like destinations and boat choice significantly.

[Echo7Alpha]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Fraser said: "...the survey 101 link will be gold once I start peeking at my first few boats."

If I may offer some more pointers :-): Sailboats are utterly simple devices unless you chose to make them otherwise. As you are new to seafaring you should, IMO, begin with a boat that is cheap to buy. Most people can find the money to BUY a boat. The difficulty lies in affording the expenses involved in KEEPING a boat. Feeding and keeping yourself will not demand significantly more money when living aboard than it does when living on land once you are past the cost of acquisition of "foulies" and life jacket and such.

A excellent starter boat is a 50 year old Columbia 26. Because it sails so well, I think it is superior to, say, the Catalina 27. You should be able to find one of those in ADEQUATE condition for, say, $8K

To keep a 30-foot sailboat I place $1,000/month in a separate boat account. That is more than enough for the recurring monthly expenses, but I do it because I build up a fund thereby so that there will be cash in the account when necessary for the renewal of sails, etc. etc. Sails should be considered expendables!

You can easily find a 30 foot boat, which by my lights is the "sweet spot" for, say, $15K. 30 feet is, IMO, the sweet spot because it is (just) big enuff for man and maid to "live" in for some weeks, even several months at a time. yet small enuff not to be too hard on the retirement budget. But "living" aboard a 30-foot boat is, however you slice it, camping, and it is a very different thing from living ashore!

Remember that the HULL of a modern sailboat made from GRP is basically indestructible. Thus 50 year old hulls can be quite as good, and are sometimes better, than brand new hulls! Any damage to a GRP hull is easily, although not necessarily cheaply, mendable. However, if you learn to work with GRP, you can certainly do all common repairs yourself just for the cost of materials. Everything OTHER than the hull should be considered "consumable". It WILL wear out and require replacement. And rope ain't cheap :-)

Getting underway, making the passage and coming to anchor or alongside each day needs to be accomplished in six or eight hours, lest it become too much like real work. Therefore the distance you can cover in a day's voyage in a 30 footer is about 30 nautical miles. Therefore you will not as a retiree have enuff time in you remaining life to see every corner of this coast :-)!

Given the topography of this coast and the multiplicity of microclimates and the vagaries of tides and currents (which can run faster than a 30-footer's top speed under power) you need a decent engine. A 30 footer will have a displacement of about five tons, call it six tons laden. In our waters you should therefore have an engine of about 4 x 6 = 25HP.

As for the rig, any KIND of rig will do, but make life easy for yourself and keep your costs down while keeping the boat's sailing ability as good as you can by eschewing roller furling sails. In our benign waters just are better off with "hank on" sails.

Well, that should set you thinking for now :-) For an excellent treatise of what sailing yachts are all about, interspersed with excellent discussions of particular designs from quite small to rather big, go to a second hand book store and get The Proper Yacht by Arthur Beiser. Or get it via HolyMotherNet. The book is 50 years old, but a classic. A quite new book that is not to be sneezed at despite all the pretty pictures in it is Sailing by Robby Robinson. It has easy to digest cameo discussions of every aspect of sailing.

All the best :-)

TrentePieds

This is great advice!
Echo7Alpha

[Frase]

Originally Posted by Echo7Alpha

This is great advice!
Echo7Alpha

It really is. And thanks everyone for taking the time to post.

I've started off with "Inspecting the aging sailboat" and "Your first sailboat: how to find and sail the right boat for you". And I'm practicing some knots.

Been looking at some Catalina 27/SJ28 type boats but have not yet found a Columbia 26 for sale, I'll keep looking. Any other recommendations for 27-30ft cruiser types for a first boat would be most welcome also.

Oh and noted on the profile and my location - I will fill in more once I have moved to the ocean!

Best,

Fraser.

[goboatingnow]

Reccomending ageing sailboats ( for liveaboards ) is all fine and dandy. You can , quite frankly find stuff at any price point.

Buts a reason that 30 footer is 15k basically it’s crap. Everything will be worn , tired or about to break. This is especially through when living aboard ( we spend 9 months on board ) stuff fails constantly , it’s not like a house
This is before you attempt to actually sail the damn thing ,even more stuff then fails.

The issue is replacements are expensive very expensive.

So by all means consider low budget stuff but go in with your eyes open. There is NO such thing as a cheap boat. You’ll have to put in massive amounts of sweat equity , and it will drain your operating budget. We finance houses for a good reason

Good stuff , don’t just think this can be done cheaply.