New here Cal28

[sarafina]

Originally Posted by mikalcalvino

hey i wonder if your table set up in the galley would be the same as mine? when i bought the boat it didnt have the original table and i havent been able to figure out exactly how it would work. i built a pedestal leg into the floor with a really nice wooden removable table top. it works pretty well, but i'd like to find out how the original was. maybe someone knows? pictures would be awesome. thanks.

Our table set up is original. There are two pole set into the keel. The table posts sit inside them. We cut down the original table because it was just so big for such a small space.

That sound like what you are looking for?

[mikalcalvino]

Originally Posted by sarafina

Our table set up is original. There are two pole set into the keel. The table posts sit inside them. We cut down the original table because it was just so big for such a small space.

That sound like what you are looking for?

Ya that sounds like it would be how it was. Maybe a photo of the leg support and how it goes into the bilge... I get it but I think visual would help. I'm working on LED right now too.pretty interesting science. Should be a great help on conserving battery. Ya my haul out was super pricey after 2 days and working beside a specialist who helped me pop and seal 300+ blisters. Then Trinidad pro. But the bottom is the most important part of a boat. Just changed the oil, mechanical lube , and fuel filter in my Yamaha outboard today. still gota clean the carb and change the sparkplugs. Shes running great.

[sarafina]

I am FIRMLY determined to ignore the blisters.

The thru hulls seem to be original and will prolly be replaced after inspection.

I'll try to get some pics up for you of the table!

[mikalcalvino]

Originally Posted by sarafina

I am FIRMLY determined to ignore the blisters.

The thru hulls seem to be original and will prolly be replaced after inspection.

I'll try to get some pics up for you of the table!

thank you! i couldnt ignore them. way too many. i know it wont sink a boat. but its just unhealthy and i'd rather have the insurance of knowing i took care of my girl. with that many blisters it was definitely adding water weight and i wouldnt want to think what might have happened if i did ignore it long enough. fiberglass shouldnt have water underneath it.
ive slowly started a website of my progress with projects. ill update it soon with the blister and paint project.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha and welcome aboard!
Good to have you here.
kind regards,

[sarafina]

Here are some views of the table: First one is the table in relation to the sole. Second and fourth ones are the details down in the bilge. Third one is the underside of the table. Hope this helps a bit ; -)

[JonathanSail]

Howdy and welcome to the Cruisers forum Mikalcalvino,

I'm always glad to learn of others working on and cruising moderately sized plastic classics. I'm restoring a Pearson 28 down the sound from Kitty Hawk in a yard near Beaufort, and look forward to checking out a Cal28 in person one of these days.

I've worked through many of the projects you've listed, in one way or another, and try to put some info up on a site about the restoration here:

Poolio's sailing and travel blog.

That site is primarily a place to document the restoration, and hopefully some cruising, for myself so don't expect to be kept up late with interesting writing

My last post shows a few photos from the current ground tackle setup that I've installed on my bow. The Pearson 28-1 has a narrow bow so it wasn't really practical to fit what I wanted up there. I think that the Cal-28 has a bit more room to work with, but I'm not sure. I've got 33lb genuine Bruce which should be similar to the anchor that you've picked up and I was able to secure it in a smaller roller than I initially thought possible. Fitting a larger roller was going to require a lot of work on my boat but the smaller roller fit pretty well and doesn't interfere with the line runs from the cleats to the chocks, etc.. I added a stainless strap/loop and a chain stopper and placed them so that the anchor is tight/secure when fully snugged into the roller. I secured the roller with a long 1/4 inch backing plate and don't hope to ever load the roller too heavily, but still think that it will be strong enough for some hairy situations. I've not yet decided on a windlass, but hope that one will fit just aft of what I have in place now.

Hopefully seeing another setup will give you a few more ideas and help you figure out what's best for your needs.

Good luck with your preparations,

Jonathan

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by mikalcalvino

hmmm well its nice to chat with people who are familiar with my home-area. it's a distinctive place.

Yea Skeeter Hawk NC is one of the coolest places a kid could grow up in ..I lived out there for several years and also in Manteo..Have been going to the OBX since I was old enough to drive..A lot has changed since 1982,use to be about 600 people that were year round now there are thousands and they have traffic jams!!!Cant keep a good thing a secret for long ..I remember when wild horses would walk where ever they wanted now they are only north of Duck and in pens on Oakracoke.Not the best place for large sailboats but constant winds and good fishing...oh yeah the hangliding is great when its due east and blowing at 20 + mph or due west at Mayberry(small hill beside Andy Griffiths house) and being the birth place of powered flight it has a history that cant be beat..I know some folks from Ohio have a problem with the history thing but we will share the distiction with them..DVC

[mikalcalvino]

Thanks for all the help in the past. Ive been trucking along on new projects and now i'm at a standstill because i'm stuck in solar 101. Can anyone give me a crash-course of info or links to purchase a solar panel in the 150w range and a compatible charge controller? Also some info on a trust worthy yet simple wind vane for a boat of my class(28ft)? Check out my blog for info on my boat and to see what I've been up to lately with the over haul.
Www.sailsplendidisolation.Blogspot.com
Thank you!!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by mikalcalvino

Can anyone give me a crash-course of info or links to purchase a solar panel in the 150w range and a compatible charge controller?

Also some info on a trust worthy yet simple wind vane for a boat of my class(28ft)?

Nice boat, I have a very serious soft spot for Cal's. Also, I like the color scheme.

Currently , there are 2 major competing controller technologies:
MPPT - Maximum Power Point Tracking
PWM - Pulse Width Modulation


MPPT will set you back about $250-300 for a 30a/12v controller. At normal or lower temperatures it will put significantly more energy into the battery than a PWM controller during the BULK phase of charging. Using an MPPT will make the system less sensitive to shading of the panel by lines. The controller is indifferent to oversized solar arrays. MPPT controllers are physically larger.

A PWM controller will set you back about $125 for the same capacity. For a system that is not used a lot the PWM will A PWM may be damaged by panels putting out too much voltage. A PWM is considered to be better for the batteries and they will last longer.

References:
MPPT vs PWM charge controllers by Blue Sky, Morningstar, OutBack and Xantrex
http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/su...vPWM.01.EN.pdf
Charge Controllers for Solar Electric Systems
What is MPPT? Explanation of maximum power point tracking
Maximum Power Point Tracking Charge Controller

Summary: My sense is that the PWM will be the better buy if you are sailing your boat on weekends or intermittently with the occasional 1-2wk trip. If you are living aboard or cruising the MPPT will be the better buy, you will need fewer panels to keep your energy usage in balance. The cost of the panels is not so much the issue as the need to find places to put enough panels.

Some means of equalizing the batteries is a good idea as it will help extend their lives. If the controller has the ability so much the better, but look at the details of what is required of the panel. See here for a post I did on equalization: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post936039

Regardless of the controller you get a tracking mount will significantly improve the output of the panels. See here, Atom Voyages - The Solar-Tracker, for details one method of construction.


You ask about a windvane which I suspect may really be a question about how to get the boat to steer itself. The answer is more complex than a decision between a windvane and autopilot, since there other alternatives.
The other alternatives are:
A)Balancing the sails to self steer
B) Sheet to tiller steering
C) Extra crew.

Balancing sails is tough for sloops on most points of sail so lets ignore that.

Extra crew will whine about always having to steer, you have to feed them, they take up berths and you would have to get a larger holding tank, so lets ignore that option too.

That leaves
Autopilots
Windvane
Sheet-to-tiller

Assuming you have a tiller the autopilot will run you $400-700. It will draw a fair amount of power depending on how well you trim the sails and the seastate. It is not user repairable and they have a more limited life given the environment the electronics are required to work in. It follows a compass course meaning that you need to monitor sail trim and course more to keep the boat from overtaxing the unit and power supply and to maintain course made good. The autopilot is the only system that will work while motoring and it is usually the only one that works well running in very light winds. Being quick and east to set up autopilots can be used in moderately confined waters while performing deckwork.

Windvanes, new, will run you €849.00 to$4500 plus tax and shipping while weighing 15-50lb. Some breakages may be user repairable depending on make and model, the nature of the failure and the spares carried. As with the autopilot the boat needs to be trimmed well for the windvane to work well, though my impression is that windvanes are slightly touchier about it. The windvane will follow the wind meaning that attention needs to be paid
lest the boat go wandering off somewhere unpleasant like the beach. (See here, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...yP0QbfNfQio7Aw , for an example.) Generally windvanes are at distance made good (See pg73-77 ofhttp://sfbaysss.org/tipsbook/SinglehandedTips.pdf?id=1). Windvane take time to set up and are best used once underway in waters that are not particularly confined. There are plenty of used windvanes to be had.

If you have a DIY bent you can build your own windvane for $20-50. Details here:
Walt Murray's website | Mister Vee wind vane self steering
http://web.archive.org/web/200606151...Self-Steering/

Also the book "Windvane Self-steering" by Bill Belcher has a long technical discussion about how windvanes work and plans for building your own. This book will set you back about $100.


Sheet to tiller steering will run you $20-50 in materials and a bit of time assembling the equipment. I expect the advantages and disadvantages are similar to windvanes, except that you will need several different methods of sheet to tiller depending on exact point of sail. The following links have a fair bit of info on this topic. Being user made, the equipment is also user repairable, add no significant weight to the boat and are easily stowed. Even the autopilot will add a significant amount of weight as more power is required meaning a larger/heavier electrical system, though it won't be hung off the back of the boat like a windvane.

Sheet-to-Tiller Self Steering
A Pearson Ariel Page
http://sfbaysss.org/tipsbook/SinglehandedTips.pdf?id=1

FoolishMuseSelfSteering.wmv - YouTube

The gold standard of sheet-to-tiller info is "Self-Steering Without a Windvane" by Lee Woas. The book is long out of print and prices for used copies are currently running about $100. This book is a giant collection of different methods of sheet-to-tiller for all points of sail.




If I was dirt pour I would start by trying sheet-to-tiller methods.
With a bit more money I would think long and hard about whether I wanted to ADD a DIY windvane to the sheet-to-tiller methods.
With more money still I would ADD a cheap autopilot.
Next step up would be a used commercial windvane.
Next a new windvane.
If money were no object I would have a new windvane, plus the beefiest tiller autopilot plus the sheet-to-tiller setups. I really am big on redundancy.

[mikalcalvino]

Adelie, thanks so much for the informative reply!

so i have some sort of charge controller that was given to me along with cables. i'm not sure the gauge of the cable or what type of CC it is. i'll have to take a photo of them and see if i can get some info. seems like all i need to do is purchase a panel and set up a mounting system. the one you showed me above is what i've already had in mind. i saw on here someone was talking about a 145W panel for $160 and that includes shipping but i can't find it in stock anywhere online. that's just what i need to get this project going.

with the windvane. i researched and read all day about the topic. i have a tillerpilot 1600 by navico. it just recently stopped working for no reason. so i've decided to purchase a new one. my options seem to be a raymarine st1000 or a simrad tp10. i'm fine with either option. i'm curious about the raymarine one connecting to a chartplotter. i plan on purchasing the standard horizon cp190i possibly with the transducer for depth and the AIS (i haven't even started studying if AIS is necessary or worth the $)

once i get these projects underway i'll be a hell of a lot closer to traveling the distances i plan to while coastal cruising.

thanks again for all the help, and anymore info is much appreciated.

[Adelie]

Where do you want to cruise to?

I would be leery of using the smallest tillerpilots. I know the 2 models you mentioned are supposed to be big enough for a Cal28 but my impression of general experience is that bigger will get you much longer life from the equipment. For about an extra $100 you can upgrade to the next larger model for either brand. That's about an extra 20% in cost, but my guess would be you would get 30-50% more life out of them because you would be taxing the motors less. This ignores shortened life due to water intrusion which is a different failure mode.

Personally I would not link all my different systems. In the specific case of an autopilot-GPS linkage is encourages attention on the instruments rather than on the world at large. The problem is not when you set up the system, but several years down the line when you are comfortable with it and start relaxing your guard about using it.

The recent loss of the Aegean during the Newport-Ensenada race is an example. From SPOT location data it is known that the boat sailed right into the side of an island. Because the track is so straight all the way from LA investigators are very sure that the boat was being driven by an Autopilot and that it was following a GPS course. If it were following a Magnetic heading, the boat COURSE would have wandered east and west some as currents pushed the boat while the boat HEADING continued to be very steady.

Speculation by investigators is that the course for the race was developed on a chartplotter set at a scale that did not show the Coronado Islands.

In the case of the Aegean there were a number of mistakes made that led to the collision. And afterwards SPOT did not respond appropriately to a distress signal.

SPOT Distress Alerts - Inside Practical Sailor Blog Article
Photos

I am not interested in starting another charts vs. plotters flame war. My comments are in regards to how far integration should be taken. In the aviation field they are finding increased cockpit automation to be a mixed benefit at best.

Safety concerns about aircraft automation | Aircraft System Safety
http://satechnologies.com/Papers/pdf/SA%26Auto-Chp.pdf

I truly believe that autopilots and chartplotters are a benefit, but getting them to talk to each other is a distraction at best and an invitation to loose all situational awareness at worst.

[mikalcalvino]

Ya it seems logical to get the next size up on the tiller. With the chartplotter connection I won't be fully dependent on it, i'm not that kind of person. I really don't want too many electronics in the first place but this system seems affordable. My friend works at west marine so I'll head in there today and check out the different models and see what they have to say. Our first goal for cruising is to leave just before this years baja-haha. Take our time and gain experience. Then make it through Panama eventually, Caribbean, and ultimately the east coast. I'm not sure if all that is on my Cal.but that's the dream and we'll see how it goes along the way.no rush, probably stop for times and work to gain money back. We just want to get out while we're young and do as much as we can for dirt cheap.

[Capitain Mike]

Originally Posted by JonathanSail

Howdy and welcome to the Cruisers forum Mikalcalvino,

I'm always glad to learn of others working on and cruising moderately sized plastic classics. I'm restoring a Pearson 28 down the sound from Kitty Hawk in a yard near Beaufort, and look forward to checking out a Cal28 in person one of these days.

I've worked through many of the projects you've listed, in one way or another, and try to put some info up on a site about the restoration here:

Poolio's sailing and travel blog.

That site is primarily a place to document the restoration, and hopefully some cruising, for myself so don't expect to be kept up late with interesting writing

My last post shows a few photos from the current ground tackle setup that I've installed on my bow. The Pearson 28-1 has a narrow bow so it wasn't really practical to fit what I wanted up there. I think that the Cal-28 has a bit more room to work with, but I'm not sure. I've got 33lb genuine Bruce which should be similar to the anchor that you've picked up and I was able to secure it in a smaller roller than I initially thought possible. Fitting a larger roller was going to require a lot of work on my boat but the smaller roller fit pretty well and doesn't interfere with the line runs from the cleats to the chocks, etc.. I added a stainless strap/loop and a chain stopper and placed them so that the anchor is tight/secure when fully snugged into the roller. I secured the roller with a long 1/4 inch backing plate and don't hope to ever load the roller too heavily, but still think that it will be strong enough for some hairy situations. I've not yet decided on a windlass, but hope that one will fit just aft of what I have in place now.

Hopefully seeing another setup will give you a few more ideas and help you figure out what's best for your needs.

Good luck with your preparations,

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan. What Material did you use for a backing plate and how much larger was the backing plate than the roller

[JonathanSail]

Hey Mike,

The backing plate is 1/4 stainless, though I'm not sure the grade. I got the material from the boatyard where my boat is. I'm not sure the length of the backing plate but it is longer than the roller. This picture probably shows the plate the best:

http://poolio.net/wp-content/gallery...ng-fitting.JPG

The backing plate was drilled on the squared end and is through bolted under the roller and under the chain stopper which is mounted in front of the pulpit bases where the blue tape and two epoxied holes are in the picture above.

Jonathan