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**JPA Cate** · 09-01-2019, 22:02

TP and Jim, the OP has a 25 ft boat, probably 4 kn. av. speed, if lucky, and that makes a 120 n. mi. run greater than a 24 hr. day, for him. Apparently skipmac is familiar with the area, someone used to it can be more help than we can, offering generalities, no offense intended. I'll butt out for now.

Ann

**skipmac** · 10-01-2019, 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

That's at least an overnighter for his boat, skipmac. He'd have to leave with a good hope of getting in in daylight. Given his experience level, what approach to that hurdle would you suggest? [I had been thinking if he left places he'd come into during dark, the repeated experience of a couple hours of dark before the dawn might help him acclimate to the night time sailing.]

Ann

Exactly. Unless the OP wants to anchor overnight in open water to get past this section I can see one possibility but would require stops at a couple of small river inlets and somewhat tricky navigation.

From where he has stopped follow the coast east to the St Mark's River and anchor there. Then staying 8-10 miles off the coast east to the Steinhatchee River inlet. That distance is only about 65 nm. Both channels are marked but can be tricky to reach. Also with the low coastline at 10 miles off he may not even see land and certainly no landmarks. If he has a GPS and is confident in making the landfall and leaves at the crack of dawn then this might work but in the short winter days he would be making the landfall and anchorage right at dark if not in the dark.

**TrentePieds** · 10-01-2019, 07:00

Ann, Skipmac:

I'm in absolute accord with what you say - insofar as I can be, not knowing the details of that coast. :-)

Let's not forget that John Henry said explicitly: "We don’t like to sail at night because we can’t see." So tricky bits of unknown waters in the dark is definitely out. And, yes, in consequence twenty five or thirty miles a day is probably as much as novices can reasonably handle in a 25-footer.

But I don't think our purpose should be to develop a voyage plan for John Henry. Rather, it should be to give him food for thought, so HE may develop the voyage plan.

So let us promise him, perhaps, that when he has done so, we'll be glad to comment on the specifics of it if he puts it before us. :-)

TP

**skipmac** · 10-01-2019, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Ann, Skipmac:

I'm in absolute accord with what you say - insofar as I can be, not knowing the details of that coast. :-)

Let's not forget that John Henry said explicitly: "We don’t like to sail at night because we can’t see." So tricky bits of unknown waters in the dark is definitely out. And, yes, in consequence twenty five or thirty miles a day is probably as much as novices can reasonably handle in a 25-footer.

But I don't think our purpose should be to develop a voyage plan for John Henry. Rather, it should be to give him food for thought, so HE may develop the voyage plan.

So let us promise him, perhaps, that when he has done so, we'll be glad to comment on the specifics of it if he puts it before us. :-)

TP

Hi TP. Do not disagree with these sentiments. Personally I feel that if one has to ask how to get there, how long it will take or similar, very basic questions then he/she really isn't ready to make the trip.

Asking about the situation or facilities at a stop along the way is one thing but much more than that does raise concerns.

**boatman61** · 10-01-2019, 07:29

Also.. we do not know what engine he has, diesel/gas, inboard, outboard, tank range, speed achievable..
Something that will be a major factor in his available options..
Another thing he needs is tide tables for that coast so he can time his runs to his advantage.

**skipmac** · 10-01-2019, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Also.. we do not know what engine he has, diesel/gas, inboard, outboard, tank range, speed achievable..
Something that will be a major factor in his available options..
Another thing he needs is tide tables for that coast so he can time his runs to his advantage.

Hey Boatie. This isn't the UK. Tides along that coast run about 1 1/2'.

Of course if you're trying to enter a 3' deep channel with a 3' draft that foot and a half might matter.

**boatman61** · 10-01-2019, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hey Boatie. This isn't the UK. Tides along that coast run about 1 1/2'.

Of course if you're trying to enter a 3' deep channel with a 3' draft that foot and a half might matter.

I was thinking more in terms of him timing his runs to go with the favourable set as much as possible to increase his miles.. if it runs at 1 knot for 6hrs that's possibly 6 important miles that makes the difference to arriving before full dark.. whereas 6hrs against would cost him potentially those 6 miles.
Just a thought..

**skipmac** · 10-01-2019, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

I was thinking more in terms of him timing his runs to go with the favourable set as much as possible to increase his miles.. if it runs at 1 knot for 6hrs that's possibly 6 important miles that makes the difference to arriving before full dark.. whereas 6hrs against would cost him potentially those 6 miles.
Just a thought..

Well, to be serious for a moment, there also is very little tidal current in the area. Large area of shallows with a few rivers and creeks and areas of mangroves. The only set of any significance will be in and out the rivers and creeks but off the coast almost nothing.

You do have eddies of the Gulf Stream that loop around the Gulf of Mexico that are pretty random but may occasionally give a push to the E/SE or very rarely a reverse back the other way.

**TrentePieds** · 10-01-2019, 09:15

Quote: "Asking about the situation or facilities at a stop along the way is one thing but much more than that does raise concerns."

Absolutely! My post (#9) with the rudimentary math was my roundabout way of saying "are you sure your are ready for this?" without raining on JH's parade.

If JH has an absolute need to get the BOAT to southern Florida within a certain time, and doesn't feel confident enuff to do the trip himself, then perhaps his best bet is to hire a delivery skipper to take it there for him, and simply hop a bus, or whatever, to take himself there.

Given that the boat is small, perhaps hauling it by truck is his best bet.

Of course if he can hang around Gulf Shores long enuff to learn to sail at night, to make sure the boat is adequately equipped for it and to gain the necessary confidence, then that would be the best answer to his question of how to handle his situation.

I note that as I write the wind all along that coast is N15. Just perfect for a nice broad reach all the way :-) Didn't check the forecast, though, and he'd be looking at a week's sail. The serious traffic in the area seems to be quite a way to the west of the rhumb line.

Anyway - back to the notion that our rôle can be no more than answering specific questions.

TP

**skipmac** · 10-01-2019, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Anyway - back to the notion that our rôle can be no more than answering specific questions.

TP

My only problem with this role is how I can answer the OP without sounding like a snotty, elitist, I'm a sailor and your aren't, kind of person. Sometimes I have to work hard at being tactful.

Reminds me of many, many years ago, when it was considered a top of the line luxury car, Cadillac dealers wouldn't give pricing to casual walk-ins. Their attitude was, if you have to ask you can't afford it.

**a64pilot** · 10-01-2019, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

For those sorts of passages, I prefer to leave in the late afternoon daylight, get to sea and then enter the destination in the morning light. Being at sea in the dark isn't too challenging; harbor entrances can be!

Jim

I agree, I’m actually more comfortable at night, with Radar and boats lit up, I see better then.’ However my career was flying at night, so I guess I’m pre-disposed towards night ops.
I’d even prefer crop dusting at night.

**TrentePieds** · 10-01-2019, 09:28

Yeah, falling tactfully and modestly all over you own feet is really quite an art ;-0)!

TP

**Shrew** · 10-01-2019, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Boredom down below waiting for better weather ruins the experience.

+1

We plan elaborate meals and/or projects. If the meal is elaborate enough, by the time you cook, eat, then clean its almost time to start all over again. Otherwise, cook, eat, clean, project; cook, eat, clean, project.

Next thing you know it's time for a few games (cards, etc) and few drinks and then sleep. It's amazing how fast you can make the day go with structure and tasks only a few hours apart.

As for sailing at night. Three days before or after a full moon. The more experience the more comfortable.