Land lubber with a plan

[The Garbone]

My suggestion would be get something like a Catalina 310. Get both a furling main and jib, no need to go forward. Price is well under budget, the builder is still in business and can provide parts and there is great support from the owners group.

Don't worry about a "full keel blue water" type boat until after a few years and you know that you need one and have the experience to be out in the "heavy weather", a C310 will sell quick and you can upgrade. Just watch the weather and you will be fine.

[Tobie.lepine]

Originally Posted by fallingeggs

How to sail with your disability? I would think superior upper body strength is a must. Hit the gym!


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I did lots of physiotherapy to be where i am at.
I shattered T12 i now have a T11-L1 fusion with bone graft. Thats mid-back. Upper body strength is copromised because of my fractured left arm and my broken sternum.

I was mangled a fair bit but i can still carry a class 31 battery and put it in the boat where it needs to go. Altho i find there is better AH for buck in class 27's

I caught myself up in ladders a few times if that means anything.

I can stand for hours at a time but some seated positions are uncomfortable.
Will definately splunge some budget on one of those nice memory foam berth matress.

I know i am still mobile for years to come. The issue is pain, and that will only go worse as i age up.

I have no pain medications, which mean i can still think without a cloudy brain. I cannot say this will be my case in 10 years.
I maintained my class 4 aviation medical rating which means i am healthy enough to be pilot in command of an airplane.

Btw, the little floatplane crashed in the ottawa river. If i can still love water after an underwater egress paralized from waist down in cold canadian waters, i am not sure anything can wash that dream of sailing from me.

Still love flying and boating.

Tobie

Landlubber still dreaming

[Tobie.lepine]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Wrong forum, Tobie,

You want the Zen and Motorcycle one.

You are not crazy, you are ... lost?

Cheers,
b

Haha. Motorcycles are too dangerous for my like (id rather fly ultralight airplanes) and they lack seafaring abileties, they are stuck to pavement a few fractions of a second from a body mangling colision with one of those man killing beasts we call cars.

Motorcycles dont give me the serenity i find when in water. Far from it.

Might be a bad forum, but you still wont catch me on one of those contraptions.

Landlubber

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Tobie.lepine

Haha. Motorcycles are too dangerous for my like (id rather fly ultralight airplanes) and they lack seafaring abileties, they are stuck to pavement a few fractions of a second from a body mangling colision with one of those man killing beasts we call cars.

Motorcycles dont give me the serenity i find when in water. Far from it.

Might be a bad forum, but you still wont catch me on one of those contraptions.

Landlubber

Ha!

OK. Let's face it. You are not going away. This implies perseverance. Perseverance is good in my book.

You brought up ULD planes. Look up Webb Chiles, who is sailing an ULDB round the world right now:

https://my.yb.tl/gannet
self-portrait in the present sea journal

in this:
https://www.google.es/search?q=moore...w=1024&bih=502

You must have noticed the Solar Impulse made it ...

Meanwhile, I am off to your original post. I will read that carefully this time and see if I have anything constructive to say.

Let us see how ULD boats and ULD dreams act in their mysterious ways ;-)

Regards,
barnakiel

[barnakiel]

Hey,

I am sorry. DEFINITELY NOT CRAZY.

Let's say I tried to apply some quick reading techniques I learned the night before from googlehowto, and it is obvious I was misguided. OK?

I think your plan will work and if I were to judge from your technical and problem solving skills, you already have all it takes. But you do not have sailing skills. And if you want to do it in a sailboat, you must think about getting competent in sailing up front. This brings me round to your present disability.

I have two friends who are disabled and they do boating/sailing. One is paraplegic and drives two cats: one is a big cruising power cat, the other is a speedster. I worked for him one summer helping him modify the big cat and build the speedster. The other guy is disabled from polio and his mobility is limited. On the land. Because in the boat you do not notice he has any disability. In the boat one moves between knees, the seat and the bunk so much that his disability does not affect him to any noticeable degree (from the onlookers point of view).

So, I think, what I am trying to say is that a disability is a challenge but not a limit. One thing is with your accident back in 2015 you may still recover, or compensate for, a major part of what is required to sail a sailing boat. So probably right now what matters is to really dig into this and see what can be done, what is done, and what has not been attempted yet, then go for the latter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z26ye_7G2M

I would look at all other athletes who do what they do having the disabilities they have. For we are all disabled in a way. I, for one, cannot spend long time seated (bad lower spine) and suffer bad things from sleep deprivation. Meanwhile my friend Bill cannot see colours (think of nav lights) and my sailing mate has climbing fear and will not go up the mast (think about navigating in coral mazes). etc. So, to sum it up: work out, recover, compensate, observe, adjust, REPEAT.

Money is no problem. You have enough and to spare.

Now. The boat. IMHO, you should avoid getting any boat right now. Just concentrate on your body, on getting sailing skills (Canada is cold, it may take two or three summers to learn enough) AND on planning.

So, boat, case one: why abandon the idea of doing things in a power boat? You already have one? How far could you go in this one?

Boat, case two: OK, sailing. I think you want a simple layout adjusted to what you want and can do and you may want plenty of stability. Sailing boats roll (well, most boats do) and (even worse) sailing boats can sail long periods of time heeled. This makes life onboard pretty odd and far from comfortable.

Sure thing, going cat could help BUT cats are money. Unless you are fine with a very small cat.

Now if we think of a mono monkey then the question is which mono rolls least and gives maximum comfort underway. I think the answer is not a very small mono and not a 'classic' hull mono. You may be looking at some relatively modern, relatively flat hulls with easy sail-plan, great access to the deck, plenty of layout customization and equally easy cockpit-cabin transport AND a most comfortable and safe cockpit you can get. Now think of the small planes - everything close at hand, huh? OK, this is my clue. Clew is the other thing ;-)

E.g. - jibs on furlers ... can be manned from the cockpit ... slab reefed mains cannot ... a windvane is nice, but you must go aft to set it up, while an AP can be engaged by just pressing the button ...

Etc.

I believe you are on the right track with traveling light. This keeps the cost low, the effort low, the profile low and the satisfaction apparently pretty high. Well, I judge from our adventure here, but I also know this from looking at others traveling light. 100% doable, and fun.

SERENITY?

Yes. You will find. You do not have to travel far for it is all out there inside you. All you want to do is to go where you can hear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7khQNR7s1Ho

I am looking forward to hearing how your plan develops.

DOING WHAT WE LOVE MAKES US DISCOVER WHAT WE ARE.

Let me know if I can be of any help at any stage.

With love,
barnakiel

[Tobie.lepine]

Webb chiles and his moore 24 are awe inspiring ... i do not have his skills and absolutely want a motor.

Ive been reading his logs.

One thing that strikes me is the music he listens to.

This guy is the definition of serenity.

"All The Way" Is a 24ft bayliner 2455 ciera. From 1984. Not sure i'd trust a stern drive in salt water. It could fit the bill... but i would go up a few feet.

What really keeps me away from those boats:

Gas hog... i have a 100G tank and that omc can drink it in a day at 18-20kt. I want a diesel engine.

I paid 1500$ for all the way a few years ago and she has gave me all my money back already. She's a bit to old and poorly constructed for such a trip. She served well as a day cuiser on the ottawa river.

Looking at a moore 24, my bayliner isnt much smaller .... but it aint seaworthy like the moore24.

There's a few catalina 27's for sale at good prices around. I will probably step aboard one in the next few weeks to look around.

Catalina 310 is a beautiful boat and very well designed. It is pricey but they seem to hold good value.

Opinions?

There's also some romance involved in cruising without the engine. And just like flying, it is something i can learn ... heck they even have airplanes without engines.

Furling jibs and mains are definately on my list. I want to avoid reefing in bad weather.

As you clearly stated, my biggest limitation at this point is my huge lack of knowledge and experience with sailing.

I have 2 more years to enjoy All The Way while i figure what i need.

Landlubber

Thx for all your support

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Tobie.lepine

Webb chiles and his moore 24 are awe inspiring ... i do not have his skills and absolutely want a motor.

(...)

He has one. He has a Torqueedo motor.

Off course what he does is much easier than what you want to do. A well sailing boat on the easy rtw route hardly needs an engine.

The less sailing performance, the closer inshore, the more the motor helps. IMHO.

Cheers,
b.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

We have similar backgrounds, except I'm not disabled, I had never sailed anything before I bought my current boat, but have a boating background and have made a living fixing things.
I know I harp on them, but to me it sounds like a Westsail 32 would be the ticket, strong as it gets, and as seaworthy as anything, getting a little long in the tooth, but that is good as the price ought to be lower than a newer boat.

I'm an advocate of a W32 myself. I have helped a few friends find and buy them. Strong, forgiving, seaworthy and relatively cheap to work on.

Originally Posted by Tobie.lepine

W32 is on on top of my list but a bit pricey.

There is also the fine balance on how much i spend on a boat vs budget to enjoy it.

I don't know why you say pricey. I just helped a friend buy one which he paid in the low $30's for it with a new Beta marine engine and all the cruising gear you would ever need. I have not seen many over $50k. If you are anchored out all the time and cruise wisely, you should spend no more that $1000@month. If you do a search, there is a thread cruising on $500@month.

[barnakiel]

IMHO a heavy collin-archer-like hull could be a very poor choice when considering any physical limitations.

I say this because they are rolly, tend sail on the ear, need more than twice as much sail as a modern hull to drive them as fast, etc.

I love W32 and all other 'classic' designs and our own boat is not a far cry from a westsail-like hull either BUT I would never chose a boat like this if I were looking for ease of handling, comfort of sailing (and at anchor) and access from the dock. If I were to buy our own boat again (which is a vast improvement on the original CA concept) ... I could have second thoughts.

Personally, I would look for something lighter, faster, easier. But this is only my opinion, not a fact. I do not say things to take anything away from what other people believe in.

b.

[Tobie.lepine]

Thank you all for your valuable opinions.

A good discussion with a friend made me realize i cannot exclude trawlers.

Here are a few facts.

I am landlocked and going anywhere in my area involves motoring around.
I always wanted to go from ottawa to kingston through the rideau canal. Low bridges prohibit a mast.
The Mississippi and tom-tenn routes make me dream. Again, motoring down to the gulf. Masts can be an issue.

Upon some further reading some trawlers are quite efficient around 7-8kt with 0.50-1$ per hour at low cruise power.

Canadian and US waterways are beautiful. straight to the Atlantic in iceberg alley solo, with my experience level would not be wise. I believe the great lakes and the gulf of mexico to be easier learning grounds. I like the twin diesels for their maneuvrability.

I cannot exclude a trawler from my search to paradise. Wind is free ... but masts, rigging, sails, their purchase and maintenance isnt.


Landlubber reading around

Keep those experienced opinions coming.

[Tobie.lepine]

Oops ... i meant 50-1$ per NM ... per hour is pure dreaming. At 50 cent per NM... that's efficient enough for me to go throw the hook in paradise a few months at a time.

A few more things about trawlers i need to take into account.

Maneuvrability around docks and locks (which my planned routes involve plenty)
Shallow water with boats under 36" of draft, that makes a lot of pleasure craft docks available, some savings on a dinghy if any.

The possibility to WOT both engines and duck some bad weather quickly.

I can definately single hand a 36' trawler from here to the gulf.

They are stable platforms where a gimballed stove isnt really necessary.

They afford more visibility either in pilot house or flybridge configurations.

They can be operated in bad weather without having to dress up.

Most can be fitted with a swim deck, which makes for a good fishing platform. It also makes it easier to handle a dighy if need be. Getting onboard after swimming in paradise is easy with a short ladder and a deck barely 8" above water line.

As a pilot, we are taught to avoid bad weather. Which means i am chicken enough to want something that can get me in a sheltered bay within a few hours in case of bad weather. 10-12kt at 40 NM from the coast makes me comfortable. A trawler seems to afford those advantages.

What do you think?

Sailing is beautiful but is it really good for my plan?

Motorsailer with water ballast seems to offer some of the advantages.

A W32 is a capable and admittedly affordable. But i still have to look carefully at my plan, budget and more importantly, my capabileties.

Keep those experienced opinions coming!

Landlubber still dreaming about being on the hook somewhere south.

[tomfl]

Given your budget your best bet may to be look for a deal first and specific boat later on. Most cruisers spend much more time at anchor than sailing so things like how easy/hard it is to get up and down companion ways are just as important how easy/hard it is to get sails up and down. Same goes for ease of using ground tackle.

You may want to research what I will call how older sailors choose the boats they cruise on. While age may not be a disability as I get to 70 I am not able to lift as much or move as fast as when I was racing in my 20s. I tend to be very aware of the weather and reduce sail earlier than in the past. I plan anchoring well before I drop the hook. Docking also requires more forethought than when I was younger.

No reason you can not sail with the right planning.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Tobie,

I, too have a spinal fusion, long time ago, it was done. What I wanted to say to you is that you can expect improvements, slowly, for up to 5 yrs. Nerves sometimes do regenerate and re-route, judging from what happened with my recovery. So, I think it will help long term to continue with prophylactic physiotherapy. Talk to a trainer at a local gym, who has shifted to that from being a physical therapist, they are the most interested in helping you attain and retain strength and flexibility, within your limits.

Next, while you're still fit, start sailing somehow, in a little dinghy, so that you can train your body and mind as to what to expect on the water, something you can keep on a trailer and take to different lakes, keeping the investment small, till you see if you think it all is fun, sailing is a lot of sitting, and your back may not tolerate that, you need to find that out..

You have a grandiose plan, if you're serious about circumnavigating the North American continent, and, you write that you have many of the skills you need already, so the objectives should be attainable, if your interest continues.

If you stick to inland waterways, maybe the trawler would be a better concept for you, you know, you could carry a small sailing/rowing dinghy for a yacht tender, if you wanted. But if you're going to try to do the passage across from Canada to Alaska, you really need a "blue water" capable boat, and that will drive up your costs, so it will be important to find out whether sailing is a viable plan, or if you need a "blue water" motor vessel.

"Life gets in the way of our plans".

Good luck to you,

Ann

[laika]

My take is don't spend more time than you have to planning. You've already got the skills to tackle most onboard systems. That really is the hard part. Get out there and do it, preferably in someone else's boat first.

Learn what you want in a boat by being on one, make sure the lifestyle works for you, and then get one you like. As someone else said, maybe a little trawler and a sailing dinghy would be a good fit?

Good luck and best wishes. Early 30s here, currently spending half the year aboard and in the process of getting a little bush/seaplane. Awfully lucky to have boats and planes to fart around on at any age, much less as youngens.

[a64pilot]

I was actually thinking more along the lines of mostly motoring in a sailboat, based on fuel consumption, the Westsail sail is heavy, no way around that, but seaworthy enough to sort of take care of herself and very roomy. Sail when you feel well enough to do so.
I believe they are well within your price range.
But you need to do your due diligence and decide what you want and can afford.


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