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Old 21-09-2022, 19:06   #61
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
It floats has sails and can be sailed immediately on stepping on to it.

Hence that’s much much better then years of toil sweat money and NO sailing.

We don’t need to know your abilities , all you need to sail my boat is enough strength to raise sails. To build a good boat you need , large expensive tools , premises, significant skill sets , stacks of money , loads of time , it will take 3x longer and cost 4x mote then you think. Add up all these negatives and you’re setting yourself up for a fail.

And fail you will

In the meantime I’ll be sailing which is surely the point of boat ownership.
That's a fairly presumptive post, and that last bit about failing, was just mean.

It's posts, and attitudes, like that which drive people away from this forum (speaking for myself).

We built our own boat, a 50 footer for a couple. We certainly don't find it too big, not by a long shot. The interior, at least in the hulls, is smaller than a production cat, but the bridgedeck (inside) is larger, while our aft cockpit is smaller than a production cat. We're quite a bit faster than every production cat we've come across (we haven't sailed against an outremer yet), and we don't regret our decision to build.

We'd have had to pay at least 3 times our build cost, to buy a factory boat with the features we have; and at least double our cost for a custom build.

The schionnings, in general, are smaller than our boat. We have good friends with a schionning 1490 (which they built themselves, from scratch), and their hulls are smaller than ours. They're also a faster boat. Boats, like life, are a compromise between what you want, and what you can.

Building from a kit should be a good experience, and cut a couple of years from the total build time. They'll get a much better boat than they could buy off the shelf.

That's my two cents.

Cheers.
Paul.
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Old 21-09-2022, 20:02   #62
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

I read the original post as ď weíre building a boatĒ ......NOT as ďsinglehandedly building a boat with no assistanceĒ. I assumed that Rhonda S (67) and her younger brother ( the sailor) and his wife would be project managing the build using skilled workers and the timeline is perfectly reasonable under those circumstances. Her brother has already put in a lot of work with Schionning to make sure he gets the boat right for him.
It sounds like a great project and I wish the OP happy sailing.
Pete.
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Old 21-09-2022, 21:17   #63
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
It floats has sails and can be sailed immediately on stepping on to it.

Hence thatís much much better then years of toil sweat money and NO sailing.

We donít need to know your abilities , all you need to sail my boat is enough strength to raise sails. To build a good boat you need , large expensive tools , premises, significant skill sets , stacks of money , loads of time , it will take 3x longer and cost 4x mote then you think. Add up all these negatives and youíre setting yourself up for a fail.

And fail you will

In the meantime Iíll be sailing which is surely the point of boat ownership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIT View Post
That's a fairly presumptive post, and that last bit about failing, was just mean.

It's posts, and attitudes, like that which drive people away from this forum (speaking for myself).

We built our own boat, a 50 footer for a couple. We certainly don't find it too big, not by a long shot. The interior, at least in the hulls, is smaller than a production cat, but the bridgedeck (inside) is larger, while our aft cockpit is smaller than a production cat. We're quite a bit faster than every production cat we've come across (we haven't sailed against an outremer yet), and we don't regret our decision to build.

We'd have had to pay at least 3 times our build cost, to buy a factory boat with the features we have; and at least double our cost for a custom build.

The schionnings, in general, are smaller than our boat. We have good friends with a schionning 1490 (which they built themselves, from scratch), and their hulls are smaller than ours. They're also a faster boat. Boats, like life, are a compromise between what you want, and what you can.

Building from a kit should be a good experience, and cut a couple of years from the total build time. They'll get a much better boat than they could buy off the shelf.

That's my two cents.

Cheers.
Paul.
Exactly Paul, what goboatingnow misses is that someone might find enjoyment, satisfaction, a better boat, more suitable boat in what he sees as negatives (I mean it's right in his name 🙂 we should know better)
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Old 22-09-2022, 00:02   #64
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

The speediest and cheapest way to build a decent sized sail boat is to build a frameless design in steel.

Van Der Stadt frameless designs are built right side up in a building cradle which then very stably supports the hull for the subsequent fit-out. The building frame also served as the structure for tarpaulin covers to keep the weather out.

Post hull construction a number of frames are installed in places where load support is required, such as transferring keel generated loads into the hull and much of the furniture can be fabricated outside the hull and be placed inside in large pieces before the deck is installed vastly speeding up the fit out.

The installation of deck equipment was also vastly simplified and rendered low cost by either directly welding to the hull or bolted on by drilling and tapping holes on the steel.

I observed a number of 36' sail yachts being built in the yard where I fitted out my first yacht and was amazed at how much quicker they were fitted out. Since very little labour was expended in making the boats look pretty the results looked a bit industrial but the resulting boats were very low cost, practicable and durable cruising boats.
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Old 22-09-2022, 00:18   #65
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
The speediest and cheapest way to build a decent sized sail boat is to build a frameless design in steel.

Van Der Stadt frameless designs are built right side up in a building cradle which then very stably supports the hull for the subsequent fit-out. The building frame also served as the structure for tarpaulin covers to keep the weather out.

Post hull construction a number of frames are installed in places where load support is required, such as transferring keel generated loads into the hull and much of the furniture can be fabricated outside the hull and be placed inside in large pieces before the deck is installed vastly speeding up the fit out.

The installation of deck equipment was also vastly simplified and rendered low cost by either directly welding to the hull or bolted on by drilling and tapping holes on the steel.

I observed a number of 36' sail yachts being built in the yard where I fitted out my first yacht and was amazed at how much quicker they were fitted out. Since very little labour was expended in making the boats look pretty the results looked a bit industrial but the resulting boats were very low cost, practicable and durable cruising boats.

An even faster way to build a steel hull were the designs by Brent Swain. It was basically an Origami fold together design. As I remember, you would by the steel, hire a fabricator that strictly built his boats and in less than a month have a folded together boat with a partial chine. But...you still only have a hull and as many will tell you, in the boat building game you are only 10% of the way there. I have built two of my own (Van Da Stat 29 and Roberts 34) and helped on a few others. So I know it looks like an accomplishment but there is still a long road to go.
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Old 22-09-2022, 03:24   #66
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
I read the original post as ď weíre building a boatĒ ......NOT as ďsinglehandedly building a boat with no assistanceĒ. I assumed that Rhonda S (67) and her younger brother ( the sailor) and his wife would be project managing the build using skilled workers and the timeline is perfectly reasonable under those circumstances. Her brother has already put in a lot of work with Schionning to make sure he gets the boat right for him.
It sounds like a great project and I wish the OP happy sailing.
Pete.


Somebody else building the boat , ie professionals is fine.
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Old 22-09-2022, 03:24   #67
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
The speediest and cheapest way to build a decent sized sail boat is to build a frameless design in steel.

Van Der Stadt frameless designs are built right side up in a building cradle which then very stably supports the hull for the subsequent fit-out. The building frame also served as the structure for tarpaulin covers to keep the weather out.

Post hull construction a number of frames are installed in places where load support is required, such as transferring keel generated loads into the hull and much of the furniture can be fabricated outside the hull and be placed inside in large pieces before the deck is installed vastly speeding up the fit out.

The installation of deck equipment was also vastly simplified and rendered low cost by either directly welding to the hull or bolted on by drilling and tapping holes on the steel.

I observed a number of 36' sail yachts being built in the yard where I fitted out my first yacht and was amazed at how much quicker they were fitted out. Since very little labour was expended in making the boats look pretty the results looked a bit industrial but the resulting boats were very low cost, practicable and durable cruising boats.


The hull is 10 % of the task
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Old 22-09-2022, 03:31   #68
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Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
Exactly Paul, what goboatingnow misses is that someone might find enjoyment, satisfaction, a better boat, more suitable boat in what he sees as negatives (I mean it's right in his name we should know better)


Itís not actually that , boat building as a hobby is completely different to sailing as a hobby.

Sure if buildings things is your enjoyment and thatís your passion and hobby. Fire away and build a boat. One presumes you have the requisite metal, wood and all other trade skills needed or are prepared to pay ( heavily ) to access that privilege. One presume you can build to a acceptable standard.

This is a hobby in its own right hence if it takes 10 years who cares youíre having fun

But this is not the way to get a boat for a person whose hobby is sailing

The self build will cost more , it will consume 4x the time.

If you want to go sailing buy a boat ,itís cheaper more immediate and you get to engage in your desired hobby

The two undertakings are entirely different

( Iím referring to a ho by where you do most of the work , and donít factor in labour )
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Old 22-09-2022, 08:08   #69
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

I admire anyone taking on the commitment whether it be restoration of a boat of bloody designing one that works.
Iíve kinda restored my run about Donzi. Itís a well painted Rat Rod Cockpit Two shot low buckets side panels and back seat have no been reupholstered yet. Hull restored stronger than 1986 Aluminum 500hp LS3 replaced cast iron slug 454 with sick rodchester carb garbage. Itís been fun and all my grandsons fault. Iíve two antique motorcycles left. Bikes are mostly what I built. I did fix the air conditioning in the Jeanneau. Itís under the dinette like the whole damn dinette and we messed it up with luggage. That it really for years. I finally admitted it was cheaper to hire a pro and go earn money at what I do. Boating is for downtime for most of us. Building boats ainít downtime at my age.
Heck I made sure I got 2 speed electric winches if you follow me.
Restoring most glass boats of age and neglect is not worth it. Building one for budget reasons sounds hopeful but surprises just show up.
Builders packages in things like air conditioning are nuts. Real numbers $10,000 for Air and $19,000.00 for the Generator. Surely we could do a better priced DIY!? Nope the unit is $5,400.00 three control units ducting fans and the controls are spread out a good distance throughout the boat. Add 5k to do it yourself.
I have a modified drag bike. 1953 Triumph with 805cc. It took 7 bikes from 1953 to 1968 to build it. The barrels pistons head valves oil pump flywheels all custom machines parts Triumph will deny all knowledge. Does the 1/4 in 12 seconds. Iíve lost sight of the cost around $18,000.00 itís worth $500.00. maybe
Iím not familiar with Cat kits. Iíve seen lots of car kits and some are worth buying most are not.
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Old 22-09-2022, 09:44   #70
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

UNCLE!!!!!!
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Old 22-09-2022, 12:31   #71
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

UNCLE !!!


Too funny!
I gave up after the third sentence.
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Old 22-09-2022, 15:47   #72
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Itís not actually that , boat building as a hobby is completely different to sailing as a hobby.

Sure if buildings things is your enjoyment and thatís your passion and hobby. Fire away and build a boat. One presumes you have the requisite metal, wood and all other trade skills needed or are prepared to pay ( heavily ) to access that privilege. One presume you can build to a acceptable standard.

This is a hobby in its own right hence if it takes 10 years who cares youíre having fun

But this is not the way to get a boat for a person whose hobby is sailing

The self build will cost more , it will consume 4x the time.

If you want to go sailing buy a boat ,itís cheaper more immediate and you get to engage in your desired hobby

The two undertakings are entirely different

( Iím referring to a ho by where you do most of the work , and donít factor in labour )
They would like to go sailing a bit over 2 years from now.

I think you can be anywhere in between both types, builders who are tinkerers who like the project as much as the destination, to the project managers who employs trades and labourers and enjoys getting exactly what they want and have the satisfaction of being a part of the process. Ronda is aiming for 2 years, I'd say that is realistic for project managing some and working on some. It might blow out or it might not but I don't think we can speak for them.
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Old 22-09-2022, 20:27   #73
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The hull is 10 % of the task
That depends.

I knew one builder who spent 5-6 years building and fitting out his first boat and about 6 months his second.

The difference for the second was that he had discovered that he loved sailing and built a light weight alloy hull with minimalist fit out. He did not fit an engine or electrics, cooked on a Primus gas stove, no refrigeration, used one of those torches with fold up nav lights, slept on sail bags which were held behind longitudinal part-bulkheads.

I spent a lot of time on my first boat putting in stuff to make it look like a big piece of furniture which I later cut out to make the boat more practicable.
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Old 05-10-2022, 17:56   #74
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Wow Rhonda,


You guys are quite impressive. I am a bit overwhelmed just refitting an old boat, I can only imagine what it looks like to build a whole new complete boat. You folks rock!


Prolly should have checked for stale date
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Old 05-10-2022, 18:03   #75
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Re: Hi everyone, we're building a boat!

Yes...they must be extremely busy with the new project. The haven't posted in over a month.
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