Hanse 445, Pre-Delivery Advice Please

[James Baines]

Hi all, I sold my trusty, fast and much loved 2001 Jeanneau S.O 40, and ordered a new, top spec Hanse 445 with every option known to man and my first look at the new boat will be at the boat show">London boat show in early January.

Late January / early February, I will be in Southampton, England, to check the new boat out, conduct sea trials etc. and basically, decide if the boat is what I actually agreed to pay for.

And that's where I need your advice:

I know generally what to look out for BUT: if any of you can give me some
NEGATIVE advice I should be looking at, I would greatly appreciate your input.

Give me all the BAD news you have, give me the hidden stuff I should be looking for, I already know the warm and fluffy stuff, I need to know the bad news stuff I should focus on.

Can you help me with this?

Dr. James T. Baines

[stacy]

It may sound a little unusual, but I would recommend that you obtain a full marine survey just like you would a pre-owned yacht.

[James Baines]

Thanks, I have already arranged that BUT: I'm looking for "Hidden" issues.

Dr. T

[Johnathon123]

Hi James

I have had 2 new new boats in my life. I will list the things that went wrong for me that I wish I had known to look for. The boat was not a Hanse, but a similar mass market product.

In no particular order.

Look at the anti skid with a magnifying glass. Look for leftover mold release wax.
Before the boat hits the water make sure they bolted the keel straight (seriously)
Load up the electronics and make sure nothing trips.
Test your battery charging system
Climb around in the bowels of the boat, particularly at the rear, make sure all the steering parts are tight and not rubbing anywhere.
Check they put the bottom rudder bearing in(seriously)
Check the doors latch shut below.
Have they put enough oil/coolant etc in everything
If you can get down before they throw up the rig it is great to take photos of everything, it's hard to see from way down there.

On that note: Take thousands of photos of everything "how it should look" so when it "doesn't feel right you can cross reference"

Check the hoses to the thru hulls are done up tight with 2 hose clamps

Is the anchor loaded on the windlass correctly.

Are the engine levers correctly connected? (i. e is forward really forward)

Go for a sail with the service manager and the salesman and have them answer the issues you document

Finally, and by far the most important thing

Is the beer & champagne cold

At the end of the day I had all the problems noted and signed off by everyone, they were all fixed over the following week.

Enjoy the boat they look great

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Johnathon123

Hi James

I have had 2 new new boats in my life. I will list the things that went wrong for me that I wish I had known to look for. The boat was not a Hanse, but a similar mass market product.

In no particular order.

Look at the anti skid with a magnifying glass. Look for leftover mold release wax.
Before the boat hits the water make sure they bolted the keel straight (seriously)
Load up the electronics and make sure nothing trips.
Test your battery charging system
Climb around in the bowels of the boat, particularly at the rear, make sure all the steering parts are tight and not rubbing anywhere.
Check they put the bottom rudder bearing in(seriously)
Check the doors latch shut below.
Have they put enough oil/coolant etc in everything
If you can get down before they throw up the rig it is great to take photos of everything, it's hard to see from way down there.

On that note: Take thousands of photos of everything "how it should look" so when it "doesn't feel right you can cross reference"

Check the hoses to the thru hulls are done up tight with 2 hose clamps

Is the anchor loaded on the windlass correctly.

Are the engine levers correctly connected? (i. e is forward really forward)

Go for a sail with the service manager and the salesman and have them answer the issues you document

Finally, and by far the most important thing

Is the beer & champagne cold

At the end of the day I had all the problems noted and signed off by everyone, they were all fixed over the following week.

Enjoy the boat they look great

great post, jonathan 123!!

a few years ago i was the engineer on a brand new moody 67,a 2 million dollar yacht,wont go into all the system problems we had,
but the one thing that really pissed me off was when we all most lost the boat because some body in the factory had only finger tightened the anchor swivel pin!!!

[s/v Jedi]

With somebody standing below to check for leaks, use a water hose and spray the seals of every hatch and porthole to check them.

Check for leaks around rudder and prop shaft and every other thru-hull.

Under sea trial, have somebody (surveyor) observe the engine while motoring full throttle. Then move throttle to neutral, wait the second or so that it takes the RPMs to come to idle, then shift into reverse and at full throttle. The engine mounts and shaft bearings get a wirkout this way and show if they are up to the task.

Check rig tension on leeward side while under sail. Should not go slack. If adjusted, check if all doors, cabinets still open and close.

Use a flashlight and mirror to check the insides of cabinets, under floorboards etc. look for decent finishing quality and if it's cleaned up.

Check every winch, especially if they all have the stripper rings installed correctly. Use Google to look this up if you don't know what the stripper ring is. An error here can lead to injury.

Anchoring procedure must be demonstrated. Watch carefully how they deploy and set the anchor. It mst hold with at least 50% reverse throttle pulling at it.

Test of electronics takes too long for acceptance testing but do this shortly after acceptance with the manuals open. Check every function for correct operation.

Test shore power, battery charger etc. confirm isolation transformer interrupts ground wire, or at least a galvanic isolator is present and working.

Fridge and freezer. Make real ure they work correctly. Use quick IR thermometer to check sealing around doors/lids.

I would use same IR thermometer to compare temp of engine and genset cylinders and injectors. Would actually hire a mechanic to confirm this expensive machinery is fault free. A good mechanic can hear that.

confirm propane installation, solenoid valve working correctly, soap bubble test connections.

Look over the sails carefully. Check threads, sewing errors, weave errors, webbing atachments.

Tha completes most expensive and critical systems.

ciao!
Nick.

[donradcliffe]

Google is a great resource--I put in "Hanse problems", and got quite a list.

[MacG]

A brand new yacht straight from the yard/factory is loaded with shortcomings.
That list contains normally several pages:

A professional survey by a top notch surveyor (as Jonathan suggests) is definitely no luxury. See that the yard sticks to CE rules f.i. the engine bulkhead leading to cabin should be gastight, to mention something that is mostly overlooked. Make sure that you have and will get a copy of the CE certificate which will make a later resale (in Europe) easier.

Quality wise you could line up Hanse with Bavaria so there are plenty of things to check and look for. Check all warranty-documents and last but not least keep a certain percentage (normally 5 to 10%) last payment in your pocket unless all problems are fixed. This is common practice in the luxury yacht business.

[swagman]

Originally Posted by MacG

A brand new yacht straight from the yard/factory is loaded with shortcomings.
That list contains normally several pages:

A professional survey by a top notch surveyor (as Jonathan suggests) is definitely no luxury. See that the yard sticks to CE rules f.i. the engine bulkhead leading to cabin should be gastight, to mention something that is mostly overlooked. Make sure that you have and will get a copy of the CE certificate which will make a later resale (in Europe) easier.

Quality wise you could line up Hanse with Bavaria so there are plenty of things to check and look for. Check all warranty-documents and last but not least keep a certain percentage (normally 5 to 10%) last payment in your pocket unless all problems are fixed. This is common practice in the luxury yacht business.

Having had the pleasure of sailing the Hanse 461 for five years, I was reading the suggestions already made with interest and a few smiles. Theres some initial good tips but some nonsense talked about build quality - and that's a shame really as it's not true.

My own suggestions are
1. Engage your surveyor NOT on purchase, but at the end of the warranty period so you can delivery a fix list before warranty expires. I doubt you'll have issues getting things fixed (we had stuff done FOC after warranty expired).
2. Ensure the starter relays are not bolted onto the engine block, but away from it. (ours were engine mounted. After a time, once hot, the plastic cases warped, the relays dropped out and earthed, and the starter engaged burning two of them out).
3. Use a Karcher Pressure washer on the hatch test. Remember to also check the mast seal and lazarette.
4. Flood some water underfloor and check all automatic bilge pumps are in the lowest spot.
Apart from some water ingress into foam filled keel voids after four years (which Hanse fixed without charge outside warranty) those were the only issues we had with our Hanse.
You'll probably get specific model advise from other owners on www.myhanse.com.

FWIW our profession was in best value procurement and we have a family involvement in both sailing and boat building, so we think we know boats and buying. Facts are, we were never going to be Hanses ideal boat buyer.

But have to say Peter Thomas of Hanse UK and that 461 performed way above and beyond expectations. It was stylish, modern, fast and stiff. A joy to sail. Of course we found snagging issues to sort, but we simply reported each one and Hanse fixed them promptly.

But the bonus was we had far less issues than other equally new and more expensive makes that we sailed in company with in those early years. And trust me, the Bavaria is not a valid comparison.

Hope you cover as many happy miles in your Hanse as we did in ours.

Cheers
John

[MacG]

I disagree here with Swagman. I have been the last 20 years involved in yachtbuilding and the professional boating industry and working with the big names in the boating industry I am fairly well ahead of what' s common practice.

I have not that much experience with production boats, I must admit but only with the "One off" kind who were build to individual design and interior lay-out by separate companies.

First of all we work with a book called building specifications where all the agreements, payments and components are described as well as the brandnames involved or their equals. This book of building specifications can be as much as a 100 pages.

In many cases, if not all, the insurance companies are requiring a survey as well as the owner who has mostly his own surveyor following the building process.

That things might be different buying a production boat could possibly be although in my opinion it is alway wise to avoid problems rather than waiting for them to come. It is also very difficult to present the yard / salesoutlet on the end of the warranty period with a list of 'things to fix' - they might argue and even contest. There are also different warranty-periods involved for the numerous components used to build the boat.

The check on watertightness, leakproof of windows/hatches shoulkd be done in the pre-delivery state, on the seatrials, just well before the flagceremony/final handover to the owner for his acceptance and the release of the last 5 or 10%, which is the last installment.

It depends also strongly how you will be treated by the production facility/yard - Swagman in this respect had a splendid working relationship with their supplier, I have seen it being totally different.

I would personally in all cases protect my investment, being on the spot when seatrials are executed and insisting on the direct and proper rectifications and the aftercheck if works are carried out correctly.

[SkiprJohn]

Welcome aboard!
kind regards,

[swagman]

Originally Posted by MacG

I disagree here with Swagman. I have been the last 20 years involved in yachtbuilding and the professional boating industry and working with the big names in the boating industry I am fairly well ahead of what' s common practice.

I have not that much experience with production boats, I must admit but only with the "One off" kind who were build to individual design and interior lay-out by ......
.

MacG, I'm at a loss about what you are disagreeing with.

If you have so much experience then you'll know the OP's chosen boat was designed by Judel-Vrolijk??
And certainly when ours was built, the yard foreman we spoke with came with a history of building strong fast custom boats (like Illbruck 1 & 2)??
And why think he won't enjoy the same supplier relationship we had???............they are after all, the same people........

So can we quit the disagreement ....

I'm pleased to have shared what we found on our Hanse and leave it with the OP to decide what's the most useful responses to build his check list.

Cheers
John

[MacG]

@ Swagman

You have all the rights to counter my remarks since you have a sincere trust in the way Hanse treat their customers. So much the better, I never said a negative remark about Hanse, who as I am informed are part owners of Bavaria.

I just gave a description how it in our world works.

If you are ever in Holland I give you a free tour along the well known shipyards here. The only production boatyard right now in Holland of significant produce is the one that should be approached with the best lawyers you can find.

It is therefore that I am very careful with whom I deal.

A very healthy/prosperous 2012 from this side of the cold world....

[Srah 1953]

I suppose it's a bit too late to suggest that you don't buy a hanse .......

[James Baines]

Any particular reason for saying that?

Dr. T