Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by atoll

my girl friend has a camouflage bikini......I'd love to see them confiscate that on the beach

This is YOUR girlfriend Atoll?

Ya know, .....usually I believe you.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Tellie

This is YOUR girlfriend Atoll?

Ya know, .....usually I believe you.

just crew,don't tell my wife

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by atoll

how many tourists travel the "high seas" reliant totally on their own resources

The OP said he didn't feel comfortable in foreign places without some form of (personal) protection. But tourists do that all the time. Why should arriving at ones tourist destination in a boat make any difference?

As one who has traveled fairly extensively both in "safe" and "not so safe" places, I can't say that I'd ever have felt safer with a weapon in either -- in fact, I probably would have felt less safe (as a non-combatant) in places such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sri Lanka.

And before you say it ... piracy against private yachts "on the high seas" is almost unheard of these days, even off the Horn of Africa.

Let's face it -- guns are not a logical issue, they are an emotional issue. If you're emotional makeup leads you to feel the need to be armed, that's fine -- but most other countries don't respect that to the degree the U.S. does. The 2nd Amendment doesn't extent beyond U.S. territorial waters, so no one owes you that "right" out there.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Sneuman, this has been an amazing stream with folks more or less staying on topic. There has been some drift, I have been guilty about that, but overall folks have stuck to the topic - again amazing given the number of pages.

Discussions of how paranoid folks must be to want to carry a gun on their person or on their boat have occurred on other streams and have been beaten to death ad nauseum. This discussion has been about the rules and laws when entering a country on a vessel while in possession of firearms (for whatever reason), not whether or not a person should do such a thing.

Provocative personal attacks do not further that discussion.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

Sneuman, this has been an amazing stream with folks more or less staying on topic. There has been some drift, I have been guilty about that, but overall folks have stuck to the topic - again amazing given the number of pages.

Discussions of how paranoid folks must be to want to carry a gun on their person or on their boat have occurred on other streams and have been beaten to death ad nauseum. This discussion has been about the rules and laws when entering a country on a vessel while in possession of firearms (for whatever reason), not whether or not a person should do such a thing.

Provocative personal attacks do not further that discussion.

Sorry, but I totally disagree. My comments could not be more on topic.

[Ukeluthier]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Sorry, but I totally disagree. My comments could not be more on topic.

Absolutely.

It's the very heart of the matter.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Not really. At one time, parents pointed at Elvis' swiveling hips as the end of the world.

Now there are psycho ratchets on the subway threatening little old ladies and intimidating 10 guys too scared to get up and do anything about it. The level of disrespect, craziness and apathy is at much higher levels than ever before, and it's not just a "the media brings it all closer" phenomena, it truly is on the rise.

There are gangs attacking people on the streets for no reason other than entertainment, boredom. The sad part is, the cops are nearly powerless. They keep statistics and add data to the databases, but the apprehension rate is pathetically low, because for the most part, law enforcement has been turned into another revenue generation department.

While the complaints sound the same as our parents' or grandparents', the truth is the problems are 10x worse.

I'd rather be armed and alive than dead and my last thought was wishing I was armed. This is in reference to large cities, not out cruising.

This sensationalism does cause much fear and thought of a need to be armed and yet if you look at the actual statistics the crime rate in the US has been declining for the last 25 years. The current homicide rate in the US is 4.6 to 4.7 per 100,000 just as it was in the 1950's. There was a peak of ca 10 per 100,000 in the late 1980's and early 1990's, but the numbers are lower now.

These crime rates are much lower among the cruising community at most destinations. People may elect to have guns, but they should not be motivated by a fear. Most would increase their safety more by better weather planning or wearing teathers and life jackets.

Many more tombstones of the 17th and 18th centuries were engraved with "killed by highwaymen" in proportion to deaths by travel risks today.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

This sensationalism does cause much fear and thought of a need to be armed and yet if you look at the actual statistics the crime rate in the US has been declining for the last 25 years. The current homicide rate in the US is 4.6 to 4.7 per 100,000 just as it was in the 1950's. There was a peak of ca 10 per 100,000 in the late 1980's and early 1990's, but the numbers are lower now.

These crime rates are much lower among the cruising community at most destinations. People may elect to have guns, but they should not be motivated by a fear. Most would increase their safety more by better weather planning or wearing teathers and life jackets.

Many more tombstones of the 17th and 18th centuries were engraved with "killed by highwaymen" in proportion to deaths by travel risks today.

I wasn't talking about crime statistics, I was talking about the erosion of society. Like I said, back then, Elvis' swiveling hips were cause for parents to proclaim it's the end of the world, now there are meth houses, ratchets, gangs, etc.

Don't even get me started on the kids. Raised as if the entire universe orbits around them, yet they are clueless to current events and couldn't even make change without the register telling them what to dispense.

Maybe things are great where you're at, but things have definitely gone downhill the last 50 yrs where I'm looking around.

[Phantoms]

Originally Posted by sneuman

The OP said he didn't feel comfortable in foreign places without some form of (personal) protection. But tourists do that all the time. Why should arriving at ones tourist destination in a boat make any difference?

As one who has traveled fairly extensively both in "safe" and "not so safe" places, I can't say that I'd ever have felt safer with a weapon in either -- in fact, I probably would have felt less safe (as a non-combatant) in places such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sri Lanka.

And before you say it ... piracy against private yachts "on the high seas" is almost unheard of these days, even off the Horn of Africa.

Let's face it -- guns are not a logical issue, they are an emotional issue. If you're emotional makeup leads you to feel the need to be armed, that's fine -- but most other countries don't respect that to the degree the U.S. does. The 2nd Amendment doesn't extent beyond U.S. territorial waters, so no one owes you that "right" out there.

God gave me that right, not the USA. They just recognized and guaranteed it.

As for traveling to a place, why does it have to be about the place? To do without it there means you had to do without it from the time you got on your boat and along all your journeys, no matter where they where.

And lastly, the emotional side of the gun debate usually belongs to those that would have everyone unarmed. The made up statistics and outright lies about the effects of allowing armed citizens are off the chart. It's hard to have a rational debate when those willing to take your guns are so irrational. And the media plays on it too. No wonder many people have been programmed from birth through such to think guns are pure evil and nothing but harm comes from them. Where guns are not allowed, crimes are committed with knifes or other items instead.

Guns are the great equalizer. They allow the weak just as much power as the strong. It may be the difference between a 95lb. 18 yr. old female being raped or worse by a 200 lb man or being able to deter him and make it home. The presence of a gun does not mean you have to use it, you still get to decide that. And the presence of a gun does not guarantee you'll come out on top. It's simply an added option in your inventory. It is a major responsibility and one that many can not handle, no different than owning a car. They project "their" fear of what "they" might do with a gun onto everyone else. Just because their mind is questionable doesn't mean everyone's is.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Coops

Ah yes. I just snatched at it, sorry.

Coops.

And here I thought you were trying to poke fun at it.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A little thread drift, but meant to show how much has changed in the very recent past
I grew up in Georgia, and in my High School years many of us would go hunting before or after school, which of course meant we had out shotguns and high power rifles in our vehicles in the school parking lot, often in the gun rack in the back window of a pickup truck. I can remember taking my Remingtom 1148 28Ga shotgun out to show my Principal, it was a sort of rare gun and he wanted to see it.
There was never, ever any attempt at using any of the guns for anything other than hunting, no matter how badly you were insulted or beaten in a fight, you never thought I'll go get my gun.

What the hell has happened to the world?

Up here in Alberta, Canada I recall we used to take .22's to school, because we were going gopher hunting afterwards. Rules were, make sure they were unloaded and lock them in your lockers. At dismissal the teachers would say, good luck and be careful.

We were in grade 7.

Times have changed. At the very least the school would be locked down, the SWAT team be called out, and the kids probably assigned to Child Welfare and taken from the parents.

BTW, we were not a country school, but in a small suburb near a major city. The RCMP used to pay us a 5 cents a gopher tail as bounty.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Most would increase their safety more by better weather planning or wearing teathers and life jackets.

Many more tombstones of the 17th and 18th centuries were engraved with "killed by highwaymen" in proportion to deaths by travel risks today.

Exactly, but Dirty Harry didn't wear a harness.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Phantoms

God gave me that right, not the USA. They just recognized and guaranteed it.

As for traveling to a place, why does it have to be about the place? To do without it there means you had to do without it from the time you got on your boat and along all your journeys, no matter where they where.

And lastly, the emotional side of the gun debate usually belongs to those that would have everyone unarmed. The made up statistics and outright lies about the effects of allowing armed citizens are off the chart. It's hard to have a rational debate when those willing to take your guns are so irrational. And the media plays on it too. No wonder many people have been programmed from birth through such to think guns are pure evil and nothing but harm comes from them. Where guns are not allowed, crimes are committed with knifes or other items instead.

Guns are the great equalizer. They allow the weak just as much power as the strong. It may be the difference between a 95lb. 18 yr. old female being raped or worse by a 200 lb man or being able to deter him and make it home. The presence of a gun does not mean you have to use it, you still get to decide that. And the presence of a gun does not guarantee you'll come out on top. It's simply an added option in your inventory. It is a major responsibility and one that many can not handle, no different than owning a car. They project "their" fear of what "they" might do with a gun onto everyone else. Just because their mind is questionable doesn't mean everyone's is.

Can you quote me the relevant passage in the Bible, or whatever your sacred book is, where God grants that right?

[Ukeluthier]

Originally Posted by Phantoms

Guns are the great equalizer. They allow the weak just as much power as the strong. It may be the difference between a 95lb. 18 yr. old female being raped or worse by a 200 lb man or being able to deter him and make it home.

Guns are an equalizer?

I don't think so.

They give a 95-lb. stupid, delusional, or paranoid person the power to blow away a 200-lb. rational and intelligent person.

Where is the equality in that?

[Phantoms]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Can you quote me the relevant passage in the Bible, or whatever your sacred book is, where God grants that right?

Can you show me where the Constitution grants me that Right?

You can't because it's worded as we already have that right. It just recognizes and guarantees it. If I was born with that Right then the only outcome for me is that God granted me that right.

God, your Creator or whoever else you attribute yourself too granted you and everyone else that right too. Over the years, many have had that Right infringed upon from those over them. Even the USA which recognizes and guarantees it and even goes so far as to say "shall not be infringed" has infringed upon it. The doesn't change the fact that we were born with it. People (some more than others) have just allowed it to be infringed upon.