Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

[a64pilot]

As a kid used to shoot rabbits from a moving pickup truck with a .22, missed way more than we hit, but you would be surprised with practice how good you can get.

[a64pilot]

One of my absolute favorite movie scenes

http://youtu.be/S06nIz4scvI

[ontherocks83]

The impossible is only impossible to those who think its impractical. To support a weak argument easiest thing to do is discredit the action altogether i.e. (you couldn't hit anything anyways) instead of just saying I dont like guns and dont want them on my boat. Kiss and a64 obviously some people dislike people having guns. The difference between you/us and them is we dont want to force people to have them onboard. They in general dont want anyone to have them because they dont believe in them. Its your boat do what you want.

Now for the fun part. AK's are nice in the sense they are reliable. Accuracy is good enough to get the job done but its no sniper rifle. I have one and love it but wouldn't have it on board because people associate pirate or "terrorist" with AK. Mini 14 is a great gun for the reason that they ars essentially AR15'S but the uniformed dont think they are as bad because they look like a hunting rifle instead of an evil black gun even though they are the same round and Barrell. Shotguns are versatile, reliable and powerful. They just dont have at&t's endorsement to reach out and touch someone. My only suggestion is to never carry a gun you aren't willing to throw overboard just incase you have to make an emergency stop in a place like Mexico. Then pitch those f'ers over the side and play nice.

Remember you'll never with this argument with the port side. They cant understand you can think differently and not be wrong where most of us realize that although we strongly disagree, they aren't wrong, they're just different and value things differently. We dont have a problem with them not carrying but they tend to think we're(lets say foolish) for carrying.

Oh well I'm going to go say good night to my guns in an affectionate tone and let them know I appreciate them being present in my life just to make those types a little nervous about my mental state.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

One of my absolute favorite movie scenes

Full Metal Jacket- Get Some - YouTube

Best movie EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

[klmmicro]

OTR83...you are that one in the crowd raining on the emotional parade of others! That was sarcasm, BTW.

Agree with you and bottom line, will continue to do things the way I want to do them on my boat. Figure most others will as well. This is one of those topics where neither side with ever convince the other...but it is entertaining to watch them try.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by KISS

The best job for this task IMO would be a bolt action high powered rifle - rested on the cabin roof, you will win any engagement with AK-47 wielding gunmen on a bobbing skiff (in all likelihood, they'll just run away once you start firing in their general direction). I don't see the purpose of a shotgun or pistol - you don't want them to get that close.

The arguments are endless and circular. The issue I have with this strategy is determining intent from 300 yards away.

"What if they are just fishermen exercising their right to carry while sidling up to sell you some fish."

If visible weapons were the only test of whether there is going to be a gun fight no one would have made it out of the 1800's alive when presumably everyone visibly carried.

If you carry the "home invasion" defense forward don't you have to wait until they shoot at you or try to board?

If you wanted to "isolate" your boat from any approaches, fishermen or otherwise, how would you signal to stand off and stay clear before you started taking shots at them?

If I were to carry I think the research shows that a shotgun is the right "home defense" weapon. Of course this lets the bad guy get a lot closer than you want, if in fact the approaching boat is a bad guy <sigh>

I see most of these threads as a combination of fear of being attakced plus fear of being undefended.

Boats are vulnerable for sure, that is obvious. I guess the risk of attack can be reduced by avoiding places where there is higher likelihood of attack and on balance that is my strategy.

[KISS]

@Ex-Calif

If you notice a suspicious vessel approaching, stand visibly on deck with the rifle and fire a couple warning shots into the air - make sure they see/hear you. If they don't turn around, it's safe to assume they're hostile. Of course I'm talking about well offshore. Near shore, the thing gets much trickier.

[NoTies]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

As a kid used to shoot rabbits from a moving pickup truck with a .22, missed way more than we hit, but you would be surprised with practice how good you can get.

This gem is part of the reason I don't want people cruising round with guns onboard. Anybody who boasts about shooting from moving vehicle has questionable firearms sense in my opinion and would be a very real danger to others.
And still nobody can actually put their hand up and say they have shot from a moving boat (and hit their target)

[KISS]

Originally Posted by NoTies

And still nobody can actually put their hand up and say they have shot from a moving boat (and hit their target)

Why don't you go visit the pirates and ask them.

Report back with your findings.

[NoTies]

Originally Posted by KISS

Why don't you go visit the pirates and ask them.

Report back with your findings.

What pirates? I ask all the cruisers on here who has actually had a run in with a pirate on the high seas, Somalia excepted? Just don't sail off the coast of Somalia without an escort. People are inventing a danger to justify arming themselves.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by KISS

@Ex-Calif

If you notice a suspicious vessel approaching, stand visibly on deck with the rifle and fire a couple warning shots into the air - make sure they see/hear you. If they don't turn around, it's safe to assume they're hostile. Of course I'm talking about well offshore. Near shore, the thing gets much trickier.

I'd like to think I don't have to be that paranoid to fire warning shots every time I see a vessel at sea and also, in my opinion, the likelihodd of encountering boarders at sea (say 100nm+ off) are zero.

You are right. It's trickier in-shore and that is where it happens.

Originally Posted by NoTies

What pirates? I ask all the cruisers on here who has actually had a run in with a pirate on the high seas, Somalia excepted? Just don't sail off the coast of Somalia without an escort. People are inventing a danger to justify arming themselves.

I think the "no gun" crowd should at least recognize that boats are vulnerable. There are enough global random reports of boardings, kidnappings, burglaries and robberies, some gone horribly wrong, to make it a valid discussion on how to protect the boat and crew.

You can't hit the ADT alarm, call 911 and wait for help on a boat.

Statistically, however, I believe that being on a boat in 99% of the places I wish to go is safer than any random street in any major US city.

BTW - Not that it matters but I have had my home robbed twice and have been held up at knife point. Both home invasions were when no one was home. At knife point the guy looked like a druggie/tweaker and I happily handed over my cash and walked away. This experience still hasn't prompted me to conceal carry or have a weapon in my home. YMMV...

[KISS]

Originally Posted by NoTies

What pirates? I ask all the cruisers on here who has actually had a run in with a pirate on the high seas, Somalia excepted? Just don't sail off the coast of Somalia without an escort. People are inventing a danger to justify arming themselves.

Piracy — Noonsite

Here are three examples of armed boarding this year in the Caribbean.

One of them resulted in death of the owner.

Caribbean, BVIs, Tortola East, Fat Hogs Bay: Armed boarding - February 2014 By Sue Richards — last modified Feb 12, 2014 02:14 PM Contributors: Thanks to the Caribbean Safety and Security Net for this info.



Published: 2014-02-12 14:00:00
Topics: Piracy Reports 2014
Countries: British Virgin Islands



February 9, 2014
Fat Hogs Bay BVI
While on a mooring a private boat was boarded by two masked men. The owner heard them climbing on board and as the masked men were attempting to open the companion way doors he yelled. The boarders ran with the owner in pursuit. As the masked men jumped in their dinghy they fired a shot at the owner which missed and went through the Bimini approx 3 feet from the yacht owner's head.

Saint Lucia, Vieux Fort: British Skipper dies in Armed Robbery - January 2014 By Sue Richards — last modified Jan 24, 2014 03:32 PM Contributors: Sky News; Daily Mail; St Lucia News Online


A British cruiser died trying to protect his wife from armed boarders whilst at anchor in Vieux Fort, Friday 17 January.

Published: 2014-01-19 00:00:00
Topics: Piracy Reports 2014
Countries: St Lucia

Skipper of SY Magnetic Attraction Roger Pratt

A murder inquiry was launched after the death of cruiser Roger Pratt, 62, in Saint Lucia last Friday.
Roger and his wife Margaret were attacked while their boat was berthed at the Seaport in Vieux Fort.
Local press reports: According to the police, “About midnight on Friday, January 17, 2014, officers attached to the Vieux Fort Police Station responded to a report of robbery on a vessel named “Magnetic Attraction” which was berthed at the Seaport in Vieux Fort.
“On arrival, the officers received information that three armed men had boarded the vessel, attacked and injured the occupants before they fled. At the time of the incident, the vessel was occupied by 60-year-old Margaret Pratt and her 62-year-old husband, Roger Pratt.
“Within minutes of the robbers fleeing, Margaret went in search of her husband and found him floating in the nearby waters. Roger was retrieved and transported to St. Jude Hospital via ambulance along with his wife. He was pronounced dead on arrival while Margaret was treated and discharged.

Panama, Balboa, Taboga Island South: Cruising yacht at anchor attacked by armed gunmen – March 2014
By Sue Richards — last modified Apr 25, 2014 06:23 PM

This nasty incident occurred over a month ago, on March 15th 2014, however it’s taken some time to get the facts clear and verified before reporting. The boat owners who made the report have asked to remain anonymous, however they are keen to warn other Panama cruisers of the possible dangers in this area.

Published: 2014-04-25 00:00:00
Topics: Piracy Reports 2014
Countries: Panama


“This morning at 02:30 our vessel (a private cruising yacht on a circumnavigation) anchored at Taboga Island, off Balboa, Panama City, was attacked by three pirates.
“The Captain heard voices beside the boat as we slept and went up into the cockpit. One of the pirates had come aboard whilst being warned not to very loudly by the Captain, waking the other crew members. Five shots were fired from a 26' vessel (approx) with a black rub rail nearly as high as our freeboard, but none injured our crew despite holes in the fibreglass top sides just inches from where the Captain stood. They appeared young, fit and organised and they were intent on robbery at the very least.

[KISS]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

I'd like to think I don't have to be that paranoid to fire warning shots every time I see a vessel at sea

Course not, that would be crazy. A vessel would have to do more than be in my general vicinity to warrant a warning shot. You'd have to error on the side of caution, which negates some of the value of having the gun aboard, but I'd still rather have it that not for those situations where I can confidently ID a threat as a threat.

and also, in my opinion, the likelihodd of encountering boarders at sea (say 100nm+ off) are zero. You are right. It's trickier in-shore and that is where it happens.

I didn't mean that far out. National jurisdiction ends long before that.

[NoTies]

Not exactly high seas. I'm picking those countries wouldn't permit armed cruisers (now, there's an oxymoron)

Sent from my LT22i using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by NoTies

What pirates? I ask all the cruisers on here who has actually had a run in with a pirate on the high seas, Somalia excepted? Just don't sail off the coast of Somalia without an escort. People are inventing a danger to justify arming themselves.

Yep

But it's their constitutional right!