Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

The purpose of a hand gun is to fight your way to a long gun. So on a boat where you can keep long guns hand guns arent as needed. They work great but not at distance

er..... OK.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

Not sure a handgun is best for self defense. 20 ga coach gun loaded with double ought shot probably best. Can't get that in SS so the light weight oil a64pilot recommends is best.

I looked for that gun for years before I finally gave up, Idea was for a home defense gun, 20Ga is more than sufficient, everybody knows how to use hammers, cocking the hammers is a psychological thing, long guns are safer I think than hand guns, unless very well trained. Able to be broken down very easily and stored in a small space, a very good gun for home defense I think.
Just can't find one, Oh and Based on Tom Clancys novel I did a little searching long ago, OO Buck is not what you want in a home or boat, for very short range and to keep penetration down, you want much smaller shot, like #4 or even bird shot. At ten ft, even bird shot will inflict a horrible wound

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Makes me wonder why have them them.

Unless very well trained, very often a hand gun is not what you want, try to wrestle a shotgun away from someone as opposed to a hand gun for instance.
My opinion is if your not at the training level of say an LEO, a handgun is not your best option. I would even go so far as to say that most people that have them, probably shouldn't.

Now I freely admit that is just my opinion, I do not offer it up as some kind of fact

[a64pilot]

On my boat in the US I keep my Baretta M9, the one I carried all over the world in the Army. ( I essentially smuggled my own weapon in the field and kept the Army's locked up).
It's loaded with some kind of very low power, but high velocity round with I believe a hollow point aluminum projectile. I think it's what used to be called an Air Marshall's bullet.
When I begin cruising, I intend to carry a scoped Ruger mini-14 or similar rifle, assuming I can legally do so, I'm not getting my butt thrown into Prison, Mamma didn't raise any fools

[crazyoldboatguy]

More accurately, I should have said the handgun is not as desirable as a self defense weapon in the home. Shotguns are preferred in that situation as it can cover a wider area with less need for accuracy.

Think of firearms as tools. Each has its use in different applications. Carrying a shotgun, even a shorter barreled coach gun, in public as a concealed weapon doesn't work very well. If one tool took care of every job we would all have much smaller tool boxes, wouldn't we? You wouldn't use a 16lb sledge hammer to pound in a 1" brad but they come in mighty handy when breaking up concrete, no?

Just like subtle snark works better in some situations than outright derision. It's all about using the right tool for the job.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

On my boat in the US I keep my Baretta M9, the one I carried all over the world in the Army. ( I essentially smuggled my own weapon in the field and kept the Army's locked up).
It's loaded with some kind of very low power, but high velocity round with I believe a hollow point aluminum projectile. I think it's what used to be called an Air Marshall's bullet.
When I begin cruising, I intend to carry a scoped Ruger mini-14 or similar rifle, assuming I can legally do so, I'm not getting my butt thrown into Prison, Mamma didn't raise any fools

with the mini 14,i would not bother with a scope,just point and shoot!
with the 30 round mag you just keep an eye on where the shots are falling and adjust your aim,and keep pulling the trigger!

i had some tracer rounds that if loaded every 3rd round in a clip are good for rapid fire at night!

found the rifle to be fairly accurate at 3-400 meters!

number one rule if under attack at sea from a small boat is to take out their outboard or steering first!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

...It's loaded with some kind of very low power, but high velocity round with I believe a hollow point aluminum projectile. I think it's what used to be called an Air Marshall's bullet...

The United States Federal Air Marshal Service tested and used the frangible “Glaser Safety Slug”* extensively in the 1970s and 80s on board commercial passenger aircraft to defend against hijackers.
Air Marshals are now issued SIG Sauer P229 pistols with a 12-round capacity firing conventional-jacketed hollow point ammunition in .357 SIG caliber.

➥ Air marshals: Bullets pack too much punch - Washington Times

* ➥ Glaser Safety Slug

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by weavis

er..... OK.

Maybe I should clarify. Hand guns absolutely have their place and are very effective. They are great for close quarters, concealability, and carrying all day (picture slinging around a rifle all day as opposed to carrying a gun on your hip)

They however compared to a rifle are Much harder to shoot accurately and are hard to hit anything past 20 yards unless you are thoroughly trained and practice judicially. They also loose much of their power after a short distance.

On a boat in theory you would want something that can shoot farther away (so the threat doesn't get close) and still retain much of its stopping power out at distance. A hand gun can be useful on a boat if you are trying to stop an intruder in the middle of the night but trying to shoot "pirates" as they approach would be a very difficult task.

My idea behind guns on boats is for when you are out at sea and have to be self reliant. I wouldn't carry them on boad for the purpose of protection in port but more for protection against a hostile approaching vessel at sea. So that is where my statements come from. Now would I carry a pistol on board? Absolutely but I am also a NRA firearms instructor, have extensive military training and shoot hand guns competitively. Would i recommend them for someone with minimal training. NO!!!

[crazyoldboatguy]

Not sure what you meant by not being able to find it, a64pilot. Cabela's sells a Stoeger 20" barreled coach gun 210, 20 and 12 gauge. Side by side barrels. Decent price.

Yeah, bird shot better than 00 Buck at close range.

Rifles for distance. Handguns for concealment. It's all about the right tool for the application.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

Not sure what you meant by not being able to find it, a64pilot. Cabela's sells a Stoeger 20" barreled coach gun 210, 20 and 12 gauge. Side by side barrels. Decent price.

Yeah, bird shot better than 00 Buck at close range.

Rifles for distance. Handguns for concealment. It's all about the right tool for the application.

I'll look thanks, last time I was looking my then Pregnant wife and I were living in Savannah in a not so good a section of town as I was a Private in the Army and a Private can't afford safe housing in Savannah, that was thirty something years ago .
Since then, the requirement for home defense has dropped greatly, we live in a house with a large yard and big friendly dogs, friendly yes, but you will be barked at in you start walking up in the middle of the night.

[jeanathon]

I would definitely not want a scope on a rocking boat, unless I could see the open sites easily.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

I would definitely not want a scope on a rocking boat, unless I could see the open sites easily.

If anything a Red dot would be good but i would shy away from optics because if you "drop" your rifle or knock it against something once then the accuracy of your sights will come into question. Also keeping this close to the original question, if you have optics and have to turn your guns in to authorities while you stay in their country you never know if they play with the adjustment knobs and screw up your sights.

Keep it simple.

[sneuman]

If you gave this thread an enema, you could bury what's left in a matchbox.

[IdoraKeeper]

I like the outlook of A64 and Atoll. Appropriate tools for the job at hand. If cruising is your focus you can obtain what is required for the passage and if needed for compliance at your destination, sink the weapons when no longer needed. But you ought to be willing to do so. USA based 2nd amendment issues are inappropriate concerns when entering another jurisdiction. If you can't be realistic about the situation you will rightly encounter sanction from local authorities. Its not just weapons either..some nations will limit other items such as computers. Realistically, cultural imperialism is offensive and not appreciated when traveling by sea, land, or air. Ask any international airline pilot. Its a daily concern.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

I would definitely not want a scope on a rocking boat, unless I could see the open sites easily.

Over and under mounts and a good 1.5 to 4 power scope that gathers light very well, Your right about keeping the sights, and Atoll has a very good point about walking the rounds on target. Over water you can definitely see the rounds impact.
Aerial gunnery is a real bitch as you can't see where the rounds go very well, but against a ground target, it's real easy to "walk" the rounds on target as you can see their impact. I can see with water, the same thing