Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Alex... would be careful posting pic's with hands hovering around young girls...
You saw what happened to DLT and Rolf...

hardly jail bait at 19,and still good friends,she now has 2 kids of her own and a 70ft dutch barge.....one of my successful proteges'

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by atoll

hardly jail bait at 19,and still good friends,she now has 2 kids of her own and a 70ft dutch barge.....one of my successful proteges'

Code for "not mine" perhaps

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Code for "not mine" perhaps

it would have to have been an "immaculate conception",cause I had the snip about 15 years ago,and her kids are only toddlers

[Ex-Calif]

Been on the road and catching up. First of all congratulations on the team for not getting this thread closed - LOL...

However, like most gun threads, there has been some facts posted and a lot of BS spouted. The trick is knowing which is which.

No one (especially me) is any smarter about the specific laws regarding a specific gun to a specific country.

Using any advice on this thread to carry a specific gun to a specific country may land you in jail.

So banter all you want. Carry or don't carry. Argue one side or the other. But let's recognize this (and all gun threads) for what it is. Banter mixed with unidentifiable facts.

The bottom line is, I would definitely want to know specifically (from the customs folks) in writing what the rules are.

Thinking you can post on CF, get 10 answers you agree with (10 you don't) print the agreeable ones out and show them to a customs officer - well.... Good luck with that...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Not really. At one time, parents pointed at Elvis' swiveling hips as the end of the world.



Now there are psycho ratchets on the subway threatening little old ladies and intimidating 10 guys too scared to get up and do anything about it. The level of disrespect, craziness and apathy is at much higher levels than ever before, and it's not just a "the media brings it all closer" phenomena, it truly is on the rise.



There are gangs attacking people on the streets for no reason other than entertainment, boredom. The sad part is, the cops are nearly powerless. They keep statistics and add data to the databases, but the apprehension rate is pathetically low, because for the most part, law enforcement has been turned into another revenue generation department.



While the complaints sound the same as our parents' or grandparents', the truth is the problems are 10x worse.



I'd rather be armed and alive than dead and my last thought was wishing I was armed. This is in reference to large cities, not out cruising.

I've been to cities all over the world, personally I've never seen the need to be armed. I'd go as far as to say that my experience is that those that wish to be armed have a desire to carry a gun. Rather then simply act responsibly. They usually have an alternative agenda.

I target shoot and occasionally hunt, I've never seen the need to walk down any main street armed. Funnily large numbers ( the vast vast majority ) of my countrymen and women agree. ( if one accepts opinion polls )

As for cruising, seriously, where are you( ie anyone ) going, that you feel need to carry firearms. ( leaving aside the fact they are poor at protecting you in reality ) I mean this is a hobby. No one is forcing you to sail to any particular place. It's ridiculous to talk about pirates , unless you specifically seek out such areas, 99.99999 % of cruisers will never be in these situations. Equally if you come across pirates in a " low and slow" yacht , your chances of resisting successfully are virtually non existent.

It almost like some what to go to places to be challenged and repond with firearms , simply to self justify their decision.

Why do many advocating guns on boats then also go on about " the end of the world" , " the down fall of society etc"

Seriously if you live in a country that has gangs roaming the streets randomly attacking people, then you have a society that needs a serious look at itself. the solution is not more small arms.


I'm not arguing the technical issues of firearms aboard( customs,documentation, etc) . I would argue that as a defensive tactic, they leave a lot to be desired , not to mention the lack of training amongst most gun owners for such occurrences. ( it's very likely that short of carrying it all the time , you're unlikely to have it to hand , when you need it )

Of course , many would counter that the rise of more aggressive street crime, Is a direct function of the ease of availability of illegal firearms and the low cost of acquiring them. Many will point to the arrival of " drugs" as a major factor in more aggressive confrontations both amongst such criminal classes and in respect of confrontations with police.

I also worry. Having lived in the US , that a kind of " strong man" Hollywood ideal of self reliance is a common belief. Ordinary people with little firearms training, and no combat experience , simply feel that merely pulling out a gun makes them safe. There seems to be a perception that your assailant will automatically **** himself and run away. The fact is there are many parts of the world where people are familiar with gun battles etc, and many will not just " run away " when you point the " glock " at them. How you protect yourself ( and your loved ones ) from the resulting bursts of AK 47 return fire , I leave up to a reader exercise.

My local policemen remains unarmed , long may it be so.


I fully respect there are alternative views ! !

Dave



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

. Ordinary people with little firearms training, and no combat experience
I fully respect there are alternative views ! !

Dave



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not everyone fits your statement

[crazyoldboatguy]

=== Seriously if you live in a country that has gangs roaming the streets randomly attacking people, then you have a society that needs a serious look at itself. the solution is not more small arms ===

So, while I wait for my country to complete the navel gazing task you prescribe, what do I do when the gangs roaming the streets randomly attacking people come to my house? Ask them politely to bugger off?

The OP was looking for information regarding the rules and regulations involving correctly and legally carrying firearms on a vessel visiting foreign ports. I am keen on this for a variety of reasons, including that I may wish to do this. Everyone has a duty to follow the laws of any country they visit. Nothing pisses me off more than to witness my fellow Americans acting boorishly, let alone illegally, while visiting another country. I have done some travelling and have occasionally witnessed this behavior.

We are guests in their country. We have a duty to know enough about the people and the laws so that we don't offend them or violate their laws. The OP is trying to do that. I am following not just because I may wish to carry firearms on my vessel, but to see how other people gather that information. Their searching and opining and suggesting about that process is what informs me. What worked, what didn't. Who is best to contact. When is it best. What resources are out there (Noonsite, etc).

THAT is what I am looking for. I understand and accept that I have to weed thru the unending opining of folks who want to paint me (in plain language or obliquely) as the "Ugly American" and question my cognitive abilities or sanity in the process.

While visiting other countries I found that unfailingly polite behavior most often is met with unfailingly polite behavior. But, then, I haven't visited Paris since I was a child - who knows?

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Seriously if you live in a country that has gangs roaming the streets randomly attacking people, then you have a society that needs a serious look at itself. the solution is not more small arms.

That's a great statement but it changes and helps nothing. You are pointing out the obvious as a solution with no tangible way to do anything about it besides point out moral superiority.

So what is the solution? I get the whole peace and love thing but I cannot change how others act. All I can do is try to avoid where they might be (even though it could be anywhere at anytime) and I can be prepared as possible to deal with a situation if it arises. No one is immune to violence, No One. I can play the odds but Murphy hates me something fierce so i'll choose to have a physical Plan B to my plan A of playing the odds.

If you choose not to be armed that is your choice but don't try to paint others as irrational because they want to have an equalizing tool should it be needed. As far as "self reliance" where I live it has proven to be a concern. I live in a nice middle to upper middle class neighborhood in the suburbs of a large city. 3 years ago there were 6 break ins with in 2 months on my dead end street of 25 houses. 2 of those were home invasions. The average police response time was 5-10 minutes sometimes longer. That's along time to be waiting for help while a stranger is in your home with unknown intentions. Maybe though I will take your advice and tell my wife if she's home alone and someone breaks in, to not get her gun and do as I have trained her, but to tell them they need to take a serious look at themselves and the life they have chosen and hope they find God before the police show up. Yup that should do it.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I've been to cities all over the world, personally I've never seen the need to be armed. I'd go as far as to say that my experience is that those that wish to be armed have a desire to carry a gun. Rather then simply act responsibly. They usually have an alternative agenda.

I target shoot and occasionally hunt, I've never seen the need to walk down any main street armed. Funnily large numbers ( the vast vast majority ) of my countrymen and women agree. ( if one accepts opinion polls )

As for cruising, seriously, where are you( ie anyone ) going, that you feel need to carry firearms. ( leaving aside the fact they are poor at protecting you in reality ) I mean this is a hobby. No one is forcing you to sail to any particular place. It's ridiculous to talk about pirates , unless you specifically seek out such areas, 99.99999 % of cruisers will never be in these situations. Equally if you come across pirates in a " low and slow" yacht , your chances of resisting successfully are virtually non existent.

It almost like some what to go to places to be challenged and repond with firearms , simply to self justify their decision.

Why do many advocating guns on boats then also go on about " the end of the world" , " the down fall of society etc"

Seriously if you live in a country that has gangs roaming the streets randomly attacking people, then you have a society that needs a serious look at itself. the solution is not more small arms.

I'm not arguing the technical issues of firearms aboard( customs,documentation, etc) . I would argue that as a defensive tactic, they leave a lot to be desired , not to mention the lack of training amongst most gun owners for such occurrences. ( it's very likely that short of carrying it all the time , you're unlikely to have it to hand , when you need it )

Of course , many would counter that the rise of more aggressive street crime, Is a direct function of the ease of availability of illegal firearms and the low cost of acquiring them. Many will point to the arrival of " drugs" as a major factor in more aggressive confrontations both amongst such criminal classes and in respect of confrontations with police.

I also worry. Having lived in the US , that a kind of " strong man" Hollywood ideal of self reliance is a common belief. Ordinary people with little firearms training, and no combat experience , simply feel that merely pulling out a gun makes them safe. There seems to be a perception that your assailant will automatically **** himself and run away. The fact is there are many parts of the world where people are familiar with gun battles etc, and many will not just " run away " when you point the " glock " at them. How you protect yourself ( and your loved ones ) from the resulting bursts of AK 47 return fire , I leave up to a reader exercise.
My local policemen remains unarmed , long may it be so.
I fully respect there are alternative views ! !
Dave
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yep, one of the more sensible reply's me think, well thought out.

There is a show on our TV called Doomsday Preppers, which is a reality TV comedy show. I love it. It's such a laugh. Last week there was an episode where this dude was showing his kids how to defend themselves, shooting at cardboard and the guy blew his finder off, right there on the screen. I laughed so much the missus come to see what was going on.

I'm quite opposed to the US style of gun belief and been 100% behind the law changes in Australia that has led to huge reductions of guns in society. BUT, to be honest, if I lived in the US, I'd probably be having a gun. But I'm not sure it would be to protect against thieves entering my house. From everything I'm seeing on the news over hear, the US has a huge problem with out of control police and armed public with their guns. But this might be just media hype.

As for guns on boats, nope, can't see a need for them. If 'pirates' or others are going to come aboard, I'm not about to start taking pot shots at them with their AK47's or whatever they have. But I respect those on here that want to and I especially respect those who are wanting to ensure they do the right thing in declaring such things, such as the OP.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Doomsday Preppers, a "reality TV show". Except it isn't.

I am sure no one here believes what they see on TV, right? Right?

If I did, I would think everyone in Australia.........oh, never mind.

[weavis]

Are we drifting away from the guns on a boat theme?

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

Doomsday Preppers, a "reality TV show". Except it isn't.

I am sure no one here believes what they see on TV, right? Right?

If I did, I would think everyone in Australia.........oh, never mind.

Are they actors are they?

There was a show that pro ported to be a 'reality tv' show called something like 'Repo' or something like that. When it came out that they were actors I tuned out. Thought it was great entertainment until then.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Frankly, this thread has run its course, IMO. Much useful information has been shared but not too much in recent pages. Mostly folks drifting off topic and folks urging them to stay on topic. Occasional amusing comments and some insights into how folks think and what they think of others.

Thankfully, nothing nasty.

[hellosailor]

People ask "Where?" and the only incident that I know of, where a firearm was involved. was right here in the US in the southern ICW.

A gentlemen who is now deceased, a ranking former USN officer and active member of the yachting community, told me that he was bringing a boat up the ICW when they were hailed by an anchored vessel, also a sailboat. The other vessel said they were disabled, motor could not run, could they come aboard to get to the next town and get some help.

The gentlemen said yes, sure, but his antenna were up, he didn't like the look or the sound of the fellow. He asked them to strip and swim over, and he sent a crew below for the shotgun. And then a funny thing happened, the other boat started up their engine and simply took off with no problem.

Not shots fired, simply the presence of the gun and someone sharp enough to suspect something was wrong. He figures they would have been robbed or "boatjacked" if not worse.

And this gentleman was very well respected--he didn't spin tall tales about things like that. This was roughly around 1989.

So yes, wherever you are, even if you aren't duckhunting or trapshooting, a firearm can be a handy thing to have onboard. Especially if you don't have to cross borders and fill out paperwork about it.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

People ask "Where?" and the only incident that I know of, where a firearm was involved. was right here in the US in the southern ICW.

A gentlemen who is now deceased, a ranking former USN officer and active member of the yachting community, told me that he was bringing a boat up the ICW when they were hailed by an anchored vessel, also a sailboat. The other vessel said they were disabled, motor could not run, could they come aboard to get to the next town and get some help.

The gentlemen said yes, sure, but his antenna were up, he didn't like the look or the sound of the fellow. He asked them to strip and swim over, and he sent a crew below for the shotgun. And then a funny thing happened, the other boat started up their engine and simply took off with no problem.

Not shots fired, simply the presence of the gun and someone sharp enough to suspect something was wrong. He figures they would have been robbed or "boatjacked" if not worse.

And this gentleman was very well respected--he didn't spin tall tales about things like that. This was roughly around 1989.

So yes, wherever you are, even if you aren't duckhunting or trapshooting, a firearm can be a handy thing to have onboard. Especially if you don't have to cross borders and fill out paperwork about it.

oh, how stories change. Could be a coincidence, but the following sounds very much like the same story. But it was more a lesson about panicking and the negative consequences of carrying weapons I think.

"The only other time I ever considered a weapon was while we were anchored off the west end of Nassau. We awoke and saw a Bruno and Stillman fishing boat about 1/4 mile away. When I looked at the vessel with my 7 x 5o binoculars, the deck box engine hatch was open with feet sticking out and I surmised they were broken down. I tried hailing them on 16 with no answer, so we pulled anchor an maneuvered to hailing distance and asked what the problem was. The capt. Said he had a starter problem. I told him because of past experiences, we were wary but wanted to help. He said he understood. He gave me a phone number which I tried with the assistance of the local marine operator with no luck. We tried a second number with no luck. I noticed a youth on board and as they were well away from shore with a strong current running, swimming was an unsafe option. I asked the capt. To have the young crew member swim to our vessel and I would deliver him close enough to the beach for a safe swim. Our vessel at that time was shoal draft and I could get real close. As the youth approached it became evident that he was a strapping young man. I told my wife before he boarded to go below and get the gun and if anything bad started to go down, just to blow him off the deck and we would worry about that later. Thinking back on that day makes me think if any shooting was required, I would be running the same risk of being shot as our guest because my wife was not trained on how to handle a hand gun. She was below decks for a long time trying to locate the pistol and by the time she came up the companionway ladder brandishing this large revolver I already knew all about our new passengers Christian family. When he saw the gun he fell down on the deck pleading don’t shoot me, don’t shoot me. I promptly told my wife to put the gun up and we were in no danger. The youth looked at me and said you scared me most white mon."

Found at - Guns for protection when pleasure cruising abroad