Greetings from balmy Saudi Arabia!

[mshipione]

Yep. Another newbie to the board. And another one looking to get back to sailing. Just a hop and a skip from collecting Social Security (how'd THAT happen?) and having been land locked for various reasons over the past several decades I've been getting a real itch to back on the water. Always enjoyed it when I was younger and had a few small boats in the day, but I (like many others) would appreciate any input on our plans.

First step is finally getting out of the world's greatest kitty litter box. While I understand the difference between a close haul and a broad reach most of my sailing skills were developed from the school of, "Hey, let's not do THAT again!" so one step is actually getting some really sailing training from ASA or similar. Question: Are some schools or certs better than others? Do some schools make it easier to charter a boat assuming we might want to rent a few different types/models while we're looking?

Ultimately, what we'd like to end up with is a true blue water craft, and my eye is presently on either an Amel Super Maramu or perhaps a Santorin. (Yes, I know, 53' isn't exactly a starter boat). I also understand the concept of "buy enough, but not too much", but I really like the Amel layouts and functionality. Being located where I am at present, looking at boats in the US is a real pain, but looking at boats in the Med is not so bad. I can get to Athens in 4 hrs, Italy in 5, and France a little more. Question: Is there a general difference in buying stateside or abroad? Are they generally cared for better in the US?

I've also read that the best deals on going to be found not through an agent (same for most things in life). Question: Do agents tend to handle better cared for boats and hence easier to sell? I see many boats, especially in this class, tend to be on the market for a loooong time. Overpriced?

I understand the pros and cons of older boats, the value of a good surveyor, and have developed various skills for engines, A/C systems, various DC systems found are cab over campers (not so different from boats), etc and have both built and maintain my own homes over the years (though I lost most of the tools in the divorce, but that's another story). I'm not looking for a project boat, but I feel pretty confident in being able to keep one going for most requirements once it's passage ready. I'm in the midst of "The Voyager's Handbook" by Beth Leonard and she spells out alot to expect.

Unfortunately, there's not a lot of sailing in Saudi (I don't understand why) although there are a few small clubs in Bahrain where we might go looking to get connected during our remaining time here. Question: Is anyone familiar with sailing groups in the area (Eastern Province of Saudi or Bahrain)? Also, would it be recommended to try to crew for someone to develop skills more, or is it better to just take the helm?

This whole idea has been developing, and we're not getting any younger so we figure it's time. After all, we all die, but so few of us ever actually live.

Thanks to all and smooth sailing!

-------
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails" - Mark Twain

[barnakiel]

I do not know about SA but I know Amels are a great choice. There are smaller Sharkies and bigger Santorins I think gradation is 43, 46 and 53 feet. They are very easy to run and maintain. I would forego the big ones (53) and concentrate on finding a clean and well taken care of Sharkie / Mango or Santorin.

I had zero challenges running and docking a 54' Amel with help from my pretty delicate female crew member.

Welcome!

Cheers,
b.

[brownoarsman]

Kief halikum? Ahlan. If you or anyone you know has access to the US military's recreation facility outside Dhahran at half moon bay (assuming it still exists), there were some sunfish and lasers there.
I've used the Bahrain club as well. It's fairly expensive and it's small boats are pretty limited to just one class, and when I was there a number of the small boats had broken bits and we had to scavenge to put a complete boat together. Some members keep larger boats though so I would look at trying to get invites on those. If you don't want to pay the fees up front, they have daily rentals, though those are also pretty expensive for what you get.
Aside from that, have you looked at just buying your own car topper? I assume you got a 4x4 as part of your package, and on much of the Red Sea or the Gulf Coast you can launch from pretty much anywhere (just check for a coral shelf first on the Red Sea).
You could also check out the minikats and other inflatable catamarans. Easy to import in standard checked bags.
My dad imported the first windsurfer and I believe the first catamaran back in the 70's, and there used to be an Aramco sailing club as well whose members owned their own boats.

Finally, Sharm and dthahab on the Sinai are fairly resorty and if you find yourselves there I'm sure you could rent something.

My info is a few years dated so things may have changed. I'd start with the Aramcons at half moon bay and ask around.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, mshipione.

[mshipione]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I do not know about SA but I know Amels are a great choice. There are smaller Sharkies and bigger Santorins I think gradation is 43, 46 and 53 feet. They are very easy to run and maintain. I would forego the big ones (53) and concentrate on finding a clean and well taken care of Sharkie / Mango or Santorin.

I had zero challenges running and docking a 54' Amel with help from my pretty delicate female crew member.

Welcome!

Cheers,
b.

Thanks Barn'! I've read and heard much on the Amels which is why it's my choice at this point, especially on their ease of handling, not only docking, but heavy weather. You're correct on the sizes, and we're thinking of the 53 for the comfort and ability to carry several other folks. (A friend of mine is also looking at the 53 with it's ability to carry a crew of say, four delicate mates from Thailand... ). We'll actually be stateside next month during which time we'll be traveling to Costa Rica and then scouting a few boats on the east coast on the way back.

[mshipione]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

Kief halikum? Ahlan. If you or anyone you know has access to the US military's recreation facility outside Dhahran at half moon bay (assuming it still exists), there were some sunfish and lasers there.
I've used the Bahrain club as well. It's fairly expensive and it's small boats are pretty limited to just one class, and when I was there a number of the small boats had broken bits and we had to scavenge to put a complete boat together. Some members keep larger boats though so I would look at trying to get invites on those. If you don't want to pay the fees up front, they have daily rentals, though those are also pretty expensive for what you get.
Aside from that, have you looked at just buying your own car topper? I assume you got a 4x4 as part of your package, and on much of the Red Sea or the Gulf Coast you can launch from pretty much anywhere (just check for a coral shelf first on the Red Sea).
You could also check out the minikats and other inflatable catamarans. Easy to import in standard checked bags.
My dad imported the first windsurfer and I believe the first catamaran back in the 70's, and there used to be an Aramco sailing club as well whose members owned their own boats.

Finally, Sharm and dthahab on the Sinai are fairly resorty and if you find yourselves there I'm sure you could rent something.

My info is a few years dated so things may have changed. I'd start with the Aramcons at half moon bay and ask around.

Thanks Brownoatsman! Small world. Depending on long you dad was here I may have crossed paths with him back in the very early 80's on my first go. My package did not include a vehicle, though I did buy a Ford Expedition whick does surprisingly well on sand. And while yes, you can find lots of places where you could physically launch a small inflatable, the Civil Defense guys here have gotten very weird about such stuff in today's security. About a week ago there was a small invasion by ISIS into northern Saudi and supposedly some Saudi general was killed, so they're really sensitive to unknown floating anythings.

I agree with what I've seen in Bahrain, which wasn't much and what was there seemed small, old, and maintained about well enough to float in the family pool. I will check on Half Moon, though. I am a warden for the Consulate and will inquire about it next time I'm down in Dhahran.

Cheers!

[chuckr]

Not sure how close you to retirement but take a bit of a vacation and do some sailing lesson with you sig other - after all for us this life style is a team effort and both have to buy in - and by the way we just started our 10th year of full time liveaboard cruisers -

we did some asa courses together and can for the most part work as a team -

as for boats - we don't recommend but would suggest you take some time and come to the med and look around at boats - we first looked at our boat - a Jeanneau DS40 - new in 2002 and the admiral in I did not really like her - but the more we looked the better we liked her and we bought her new and could not be happier - but we also kicked a lot of tires on the way - and always came back to her.

as for a broker - we got real lucky and used a great one - he taught us what makes a boat a boat - how builders keep costs low and why some boats are coastal only boats and others a lot more robust. - he also steered us away from a couple of boats and we are still thanking him for that 14 years later -

If you are going to sail the Med and it is a great sailing ground - some countries or ports may ask for some type of quals - we have been asked a few times to show them -

and by the way we live entirely on our social security - we put our cost data out there in the dollars and cents area under 8 years of cost data - as for age you are a youngster as both of us are in our 70s and last year we circum nav the Black Sea -

good luck and we will be sailing the Red Sea but have been warned off SA as we are not married and that causes a few issues among others we understand

[brownoarsman]

Originally Posted by mshipione

Thanks Brownoatsman! Small world. Depending on long you dad was here I may have crossed paths with him back in the very early 80's on my first go.

Let's see how small! My dad, Jim Greenberg, started Saudi Container services back in the 70's through early 80's before he and my mom returned to the US (which made importing things much easier!). My parents actually met in Saudi through sailing friends. Back then they just left their beach cats wherever they finished on the beach, hauling them above the tide line, and relaunched from where they left them the last time! On their second go around, from '89 onwards, when my mom started working for JECOR and got PX privileges and access to Half Moon Bay it made for a much nicer experience!

Sadly, it does seem like times have changed. The last time I was in Saudi was in 2002 working on a shrimp farm in Jizan province on the Yemen border. Was a great area for beach launching but we did get coast guard visits 3x daily. I was in Bahrain in 2010, and when I tipped a laser over at the club, couldn't tell what happened at first because the water temp was the same as the air. It felt like swimming in marginally thicker air!

I was in Lebanon in 2011 but didn't see much of any small craft culture there. The marinas that do exist were pretty walled off.

Oman might be a good choice as well, though it's a long drive. It always had a looser and more vibrant, though smaller, expat community At that point though, you might be better off flying. A family friend kept a boat in Cyprus for years and considered it easier to get there for a weekend than sail in the Gulf!

[valhalla360]

Some thoughts:
- I've spent some time in Kuwait. It's a power boat driven market but when gas is $0.80/gal, it's no wonder. Other than some old style sailing pearl diving boats, there are no sailboats. I suspect it's similar in Saudi.
- A couple years back we picked up a boat in spain. During the process, I would say it's not a lot different from the USA. Some boats are great and others are junk. Minor hassle with getting off one registry and onto the USCG registry but nothing that should scare you off.
- No I wouldn't count on an agent getting you a better deal. The issue is most boats are represented by an agent so you are likely to deal with one.

[mshipione]

Thanks Chuck! All good intel. so, you're in Turkey? I was looking at an Amel there (seemed pretty good for 165k asking). Sold before I could get there, though.

Yes, the Admiral hasn't quite bought into the idea as of yet, but we plan on taking the ASA classes together. Retirement is a hop and a skip away so we're looking in earnest. I had considered roaming the Med looking as from what I've read, it's not a bad place to work out the kinks in a boat before crossing the Atlantic.

I'll definitely see if I can find your post on dollars and cents! While I'm about eligible for early SS, we can run to 70 without it and increase the monthly payment.

I've been reading about the Red Sea crossing into the Med with regard to pirates but it appears being bugged for handouts everytime you turn around is the biggest headache.

Thanks again!

Originally Posted by chuckr

Not sure how close you to retirement but take a bit of a vacation and do some sailing lesson with you sig other - after all for us this life style is a team effort and both have to buy in - and by the way we just started our 10th year of full time liveaboard cruisers -

we did some asa courses together and can for the most part work as a team -

as for boats - we don't recommend but would suggest you take some time and come to the med and look around at boats - we first looked at our boat - a Jeanneau DS40 - new in 2002 and the admiral in I did not really like her - but the more we looked the better we liked her and we bought her new and could not be happier - but we also kicked a lot of tires on the way - and always came back to her.

as for a broker - we got real lucky and used a great one - he taught us what makes a boat a boat - how builders keep costs low and why some boats are coastal only boats and others a lot more robust. - he also steered us away from a couple of boats and we are still thanking him for that 14 years later -

If you are going to sail the Med and it is a great sailing ground - some countries or ports may ask for some type of quals - we have been asked a few times to show them -

and by the way we live entirely on our social security - we put our cost data out there in the dollars and cents area under 8 years of cost data - as for age you are a youngster as both of us are in our 70s and last year we circum nav the Black Sea -

good luck and we will be sailing the Red Sea but have been warned off SA as we are not married and that causes a few issues among others we understand

[barnakiel]

Extra crew?

Then I take back my Amel recommendation. ;-)

You can fit more people in more comfort in any modern and light charter boat: a Bava, a Bene. They will have two stern cabins and the fore one starting at 37'!

Amel is more about two onboard plus say two occasional guests. Except I never had it too clear where the guests would sleep as Amels' fore cabins are normally used up for storage.

Have a look at some Oysters, they are better for sleeping arrangements than Amels. But I think what you want is something like a Bene 57 - I am linking below to an image of one of their layouts. This is what you want when there is you plus 4 visitors onboard.

http://www.croatiacharterholidays.co.../945/v8974.jpg

Cheers,
b.

[CSY Man]

Never sailed in Saudi but used wind surfers at some private beach club. Only places the flight attendants could don their bikinis.
Boats are cheaper in the US with the strong $$.
Even so, some Europeans still come to the US to buy boats.
I like the Amels too, plenty of them in my neighborhood, most are listed with brokers.

[mshipione]

Actually B', you called it in that it's more like two of us with an occasional 2 more. I don't think my Admiral would be too keen on the whole 'crew from Thailand' idea.

But I will take a few at the oysters. I've read a little on them. Thanks!

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Extra crew?

Then I take back my Amel recommendation. ;-)

You can fit more people in more comfort in any modern and light charter boat: a Bava, a Bene. They will have two stern cabins and the fore one starting at 37'!

Amel is more about two onboard plus say two occasional guests. Except I never had it too clear where the guests would sleep as Amels' fore cabins are normally used up for storage.

Have a look at some Oysters, they are better for sleeping arrangements than Amels. But I think what you want is something like a Bene 57 - I am linking below to an image of one of their layouts. This is what you want when there is you plus 4 visitors onboard.

http://www.croatiacharterholidays.co.../945/v8974.jpg

Cheers,
b.

[chuckr]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-179783.html