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Muckle Flugga · 18-12-2015, 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iaangus

I've lived in England, experienced their health care, witnessed their economy, bad example.

Bad? Why? You "witnessed" the economy in the UK? It is the UK, by the way, not "England". What have you "witnessed" of the health care in the UK? Precious little I would venture to guess. If meant as implied in a blandly pejorative sense, it is clear to me you have little to no idea what you are talking about.

Canibul · 18-12-2015, 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Give that a try and lets us know how you enjoy the experience.

Obviously, a few hundred thousand of them seem to do okay with it.

But you seem to be confused, why would I try it? I'm not the one here wanting to give up their US citizenship. I'm an ideal US citizen. I pay federal taxes and use none of the benefits.

I'm just observing a way for a foreign national to walk back into the country completely bypassing the customs and immigration lines at the airports. Or needing a visa. Or green card. Or anything whatsoever.

**a64pilot** · 18-12-2015, 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhapsody-NS27

I've heard of a couple things when it comes to Germany.

For me, I was born in Germany on a US military base. So I only have American citizenship. I found out fairly recently that my parents could have registered my birth with the German officials and I could have received a German birth certificate and then be considered dual citizen. At least until 18yrs old when military service would have been required, then I'd have to drop one.

I know other military personnel who have kids born in Germany off-base and their kids would receive a German birth certificate/citizenship. The parents would then have to apply for the US documentation at the embassy in order to receive the US State Dept. Birth Certificate, and US passport.

Sometimes, military children born overseas can get confusing on all the extra details.

My Son was born in Gelnhausen in the Krankenhaus, he has a German birth Certificate, and we had to get a "Consular report of birth abroad" in order to get his a passport to bring him back with us. He is not and cannot be a German citizen and cannot get a German passport. Now if I or his Mother were a German Citizen, than I think he could have.
I think he can't run for President either? Not too worried about that though

Do foreign Military personnel that are here in the US, if they have a kid, is that kid a US citizen?

Iaangus · 18-12-2015, 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

Bad? Why? You "witnessed" the economy in the UK? It is the UK, by the way, not "England". What have you "witnessed" of the health care in the UK? Precious little I would venture to guess. If meant as implied in a blandly pejorative sense, it is clear to me you have little to no idea what you are talking about.

Deleted long reply, no time to finish, I lived there 3 years Knew lots of people and use the painfully slow health care system and it wasn't free. You were thinking it was perfect? I'm just saying it should not be used as a gold standard.

belizesailor · 18-12-2015, 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canibul

Obviously, a few hundred thousand of them seem to do okay with it.

But you seem to be confused, why would I try it? I'm not the one here wanting to give up their US citizenship. I'm an ideal US citizen. I pay federal taxes and use none of the benefits.

I'm just observing a way for a foreign national to walk back into the country completely bypassing the customs and immigration lines at the airports. Or needing a visa. Or green card. Or anything whatsoever.

Just joking...should have included the smiley.

Perstarebob · 18-12-2015, 06:52

This whole thing is kinda silly , but there does exist a status of ' stateless person ', quite common in war zones and territorial conflicts . I had an a friend who carried a passport issued by the League of Nations [ forerunner of the U.N. ]. he was from a country that no longer existed !

oldragbaggers · 18-12-2015, 07:22

Me thinks someone either wanted some benefits they didn't get, is pissed off about their taxes, or isn't happy with the current political climate.

I say get over it. Life, and life in this and every other place on earth, is dynamic. It changes. Conditions ebb and flow. The politics change, the economy changes, the neighborhood will change, or you can change the neighborhood. If you want to live somewhere else, go live somewhere else.

But I was actually amused that someone is trying to figure out how to give up their citizenship and then in the next breath disclosing that their primary source of income is a check from the government of that country they are so anxious to denounce.

I am an American, and will always be one. Am I thrilled about everything that is going on in my country? Hell no. There are plenty of things I would like to be different. But I don't think there is a single place on earth that is a perfect eutopia, and despite all its flaws I still believe America is a great country. I'm not elitest about it. I know there are plenty of other great countries too and I hope to experience some of them. I just don't think I need to denounce my citizenship to do so. I would even consider living more or less permanently in another country if I found it made me happier, but my family is still here and if for no other reason than that I will always want to be able to come and go in this (my) country freely. Maybe the OP doesn't have any family here, or if he does maybe whatever is pissing him off is worth severing that connection as well. We don't really know what is motivating his desire to denounce, but considering all the implications of doing so I suspect, in the words of the great Paul Harvey, there is a "rest of the story."

If the OP doesn't want to be American, good on him. If he knows of another place that is better, by all means go live there and become a citizen if there is a way to do so. But either be willing to give up the good (financial benefits) with the bad (whatever it is that's sticking in your craw) or be willing to take the bad with the good. Either way, there is nothing stopping you from dropping your anchor in a distant harbor for however long they'll let you stay, cash your check, go about your business, and be happy. Is that really so bad?

Capt Phil · 18-12-2015, 07:36

All you have to do to understand the draw of immigrants to the US is to live and work abroad for a few years, experience the violence, poor living conditions and in many countries the application of Sharia law and Islamic Fundementalism up close and personal.
Comparatively, the US is the 'land of milk and honey'!
Sure, you can complain about the politics, the weather or high prices but you don't usually risk your life and freedom doing so. Lighten up, folks! Phil

**s/v Beth** · 18-12-2015, 08:11

Just want you to know I got engaged to a Martian. Looking for bliss as we homestead somewhere in the Asteroid belt....
Ah to be free of politics down on Earth...heavenly!

**a64pilot** · 18-12-2015, 08:14

I hear cruising the canals of Mars is a real must do.

Boatguy30 · 18-12-2015, 08:26

I'm quite happy to have people leave as long as they NEVER, EVER seek the protection of the Stars and Stripes EVER again.

svlamorocha · 18-12-2015, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

"Originally Posted by Iaangus View Post
I've lived in England, experienced their health care, witnessed their economy, bad example."

Bad? Why? You "witnessed" the economy in the UK? It is the UK, by the way, not "England". What have you "witnessed" of the health care in the UK? Precious little I would venture to guess. If meant as implied in a blandly pejorative sense, it is clear to me you have little to no idea what you are talking about.

+1. Whatever experience Iaangus had with British healthcare, if any, is the experience the almost all Britons have. Half the cost of the US system, universal coverage and better results (see 2-3 year difference in life expectancy over USA). Don´t expect the hospitals to be pretty, the food to be good, or have as much "choice" as you have in the US, but I would not say that an extra 2 years of life expectancy and 60% lower cost is a "bad example".

Lizzy Belle · 18-12-2015, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

I am an American, and will always be one. Am I thrilled about everything that is going on in my country? Hell no. There are plenty of things I would like to be different. But I don't think there is a single place on earth that is a perfect eutopia, and despite all its flaws I still believe America is a great country. I'm not elitest about it. I know there are plenty of other great countries too and I hope to experience some of them. I just don't think I need to denounce my citizenship to do so. I would even consider living more or less permanently in another country if I found it made me happier, but my family is still here and if for no other reason than that I will always want to be able to come and go in this (my) country freely.

Same sentiments here for my country and nationality.

Plenty going on here I am not at all happy with, but seriously ... there is no such thing as "the perfect country".
So I just 'suck it up', vote as if it matters and generally be happy I have the luxury of doing so, and complain without consequences about it all

I have friends in Syria. Their situation puts things in perspective. The Netherlands ain't all that bad.

So I'll be keeping my passport while enjoying all the good and not-so-good the rest of the world has to offer, even if just to be able to actually travel and visit "home".

**Dockhead** · 18-12-2015, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iaangus

Deleted long reply, no time to finish, I lived there 3 years Knew lots of people and use the painfully slow health care system and it wasn't free. You were thinking it was perfect? I'm just saying it should not be used as a gold standard.

I don't think anyone held up the UK NHS as any gold standard. Certainly it has its problems.

But it's better than ours. People in the UK don't go bankrupt because of a health crisis. You can use the parallel private system using insurance or PAYG, or you can use the NHS, which is free to legal residents.

NHS is a Soviet-style system where all the docs are state employees, and you have to wait . . . and sometimes wait and wait. The docs are sometimes in a big hurry and the treatment is not always perfect, but can we say that about the US system either? The difference is that in the UK you don't live in fear of some health disaster which exhausts your insurance and bankrupts you, like we do. And the actual outcomes of their system are as good or better than ours. And UK people are generally quite satisfied with it.

Other European systems are better than the UK one. The French system is probably the best of all, with clearly better outcomes than ours, and with universal care which affordable by everyone. The French system does not have the Soviet aspects of the UK one, so the docs are all privately employed or entrepreneurs, who compete with each other. Payment is made through a universal insurance system. Total cost is a fraction of ours.

The Scandinavian system has some features of both French and UK systems.

In all cases, if you are a legal resident, you are covered.

Don't get me wrong -- my political views are rather right-wing and laissez-faire. I'm no Euro-socialist by any means! Market mechanisms are needed for health care just like in other sectors -- health care is a service, which must be produced, and which is most efficiently produced in conditions of private enterprise, with competition, like everything else. But our system, for various reasons beyond the scope of a sailing forum, is extremely, incredibly costly and does not provide real security to many, maybe most people.

Retirement to Europe is very attractive to many Americans because it removes the terror of an uncovered health crisis. Provided you are able to get legal residence.

I'm a long-term expatriate American in Europe like hundreds of thousands of others. Hardly anyone I know in this community plans to go back to the U.S. We love our country, but life is more interesting here, and there are a number of concrete practical advantages to living here, like health care.