Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-11-2010, 07:40   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
British Owner Sailing US-Flagged Sailboat in USA

hi,just wondering what the regulations are for sailing in us waters for british owner with usa flagged sail boat.i am considering buying a boat in newport rhode island and sailing to florida where the boat will be based.would appreciate any info.regards frank wood
frank wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 07:46   #2
Registered User
 
cliffdykes's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Boat: Building 31 ft cat
Posts: 83
Send a message via ICQ to cliffdykes
As I understand it, only U.S citizens can fly a U.S flag.

Cheers
Cliff
cliffdykes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 08:05   #3
Registered User
 
Olorin's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: On the Boat
Boat: Fortuna, Island Spirit 400, 40ft. Catamaran - S/V One White Tree
Posts: 179
From the United States Power Squadron, Flag Etiquette:

"The national ensign worn by a vessel must be the flag of her registry—not necessarily that of the owner or operator."

Flag and Etiquette Committee
__________________
"And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over."
John Masefield
Olorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 08:06   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Boat: 2017 Leopard 40
Posts: 2,662
Images: 1
You need to get the prior owner to remove the boat from documentation. You will need the PO to file the following form "Application, Consent, And Approval For Withdrawal Of Application For Documentation Or Exchange Of Certificate Of Documentation (CG-4593)"

Available here. USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, Forms Page

The good news is the CG documentation center is efficient and friendly, and you can get an officer on the phone if you have questions. I have done this when I sold a prior boat to a non-US citizen and it took a few weeks to process.

I think you could sail the boat while the forms are being processed without any hassles. They give you a case number and in the unlikely event you are stopped and you have that case number it shows intent to comply.

Rhode Island doesn't have a state sales tax on boats, and Florida will require you to pay a "use tax" if you keep it there longer than a defined limit (most states are 60 days per year). States have reciprocal agreements so if you pay tax in one it will be allowed for the next (and you have to pay the higher rate) so keep your receipt and payment records forever.
SailFastTri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 08:27   #5
Registered User
 
Olorin's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: On the Boat
Boat: Fortuna, Island Spirit 400, 40ft. Catamaran - S/V One White Tree
Posts: 179
You should investigate registering ("documenting" in the USA legal vernacular) your vessel under your own flag. Then cruising in the USA under a cruising permit will allow you to be exempt from taxes in Florida.

from "
Sales and Use Tax on Boats
Information for Owners and Purchasers


" Foreign Flagged Vessels
Boats flying a foreign flag are exempt from Florida use tax if they have a current license to cruise issued by the U.S. Customs Service. Licenses to cruise are available only to boats flagged in countries that have a treaty with the United States. The boat will remain exempt as long as you do not violate the provisions of the license to cruise."
__________________
"And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over."
John Masefield
Olorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 08:30   #6
Registered User
 
cliffdykes's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Boat: Building 31 ft cat
Posts: 83
Send a message via ICQ to cliffdykes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olorin View Post
From the United States Power Squadron, Flag Etiquette:

"The national ensign worn by a vessel must be the flag of her registry—not necessarily that of the owner or operator."

Flag and Etiquette Committee
I repeat that to be US registered and therefore fly a US flag, the owner must be a US citizen. Thems the rules, whatever flag etiquette may dicate

Cheers
Cliff
cliffdykes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 08:39   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,585
Images: 2
pirate

I bought a Hunter37 a few years back (04).... so am working from a dodgey memory here....
Basicily I was told that I'd have to register it in the UK.... however as it was a US registered boat origonally, it could come and go with no future restrictions... Myself however was a whole different ball game... the usual visa's, restrictions etc, also you'll need an annual cruising permit.
__________________

It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 09:24   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
hi olorin,think that going to be my best bet.do you know aprox. what the cost would be to register boat under my own flag?regards frank
frank wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 09:45   #9
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,822
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffdykes View Post
I repeat that to be US registered and therefore fly a US flag, the owner must be a US citizen. Thems the rules,
May need to re-check 'em, Cliff. I saw a lot of Delaware registered boats in Italy. And none spoke American!

I think there is something cooking with tax etc there. So there may just be the odd loophole in your law.

Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 09:56   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,585
Images: 2
pirate UK Registration

UK Ship Register - Small Ships - Guide to Registration
__________________

It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 10:23   #11
Registered User
 
lucast70's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Boat: No boat yet
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank wood View Post
hi olorin,think that going to be my best bet.do you know aprox. what the cost would be to register boat under my own flag?regards frank
Hi Frank,

Actually, I want to register my boat under your own flag, but there is a restriction. I have to be a permanent resident of the UK, but I am not. I live in Greece and I do not have a permanent UK address. Your registry is quite simple and affordable, so if you don't have any serious reason to avoid it, just go for it. Additionally, it is better for cruising in the EU than the US registry.
lucast70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 10:28   #12
Registered User
 
Pyrate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Juneau, AK
Boat: Fortune 30
Posts: 105
Quote:
I repeat that to be US registered and therefore fly a US flag, the owner must be a US citizen. Thems the rules, whatever flag etiquette may dicate
Hate to say it, but this is utterly wrong. I just bought a boat from a Canadian who only a week prior had registered the boat in the U.S. He lived in Whitehorse (Yukon Territory) and kept the boat in Skagway (Alaska). According to Alaska state law, and I'd imagine other states are similar, if your boat is residing in the state for more than 90 days, you are required to register it in Alaska. The exception is if you're sailing under a cruising permit. He had absolutely no problem registering it in the U.S., which is good, since I was not able to get a loan for a foreign flagged vessel. So it IS possible and, according to him, easy to get a vessel registered in the U.S. while being a foreign citizen.

Pyrate

P.S. The cost for registering in Alaska is $24 for 3 years. This, and other taxes associated with this cost probably vary by state. Check with the state's DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) for specifics.
Pyrate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 10:42   #13
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,942
Images: 54
There are two forms of documentation/registration in the US--federal and state. The US Coast Guard administers the National Vessel Documentation program. Here's how they describe federal documentation...
Quote:
Vessel documentation is a national form of registration. It is one of the oldest functions of Government, dating back to the 11th Act of the First Congress. Documentation provides conclusive evidence of nationality for international purposes, provides for unhindered commerce between the states, and admits vessels to certain restricted trades, such as coastwise trade and the fisheries. Since 1920, vessel financing has been enhanced through the availability of preferred mortgages on documented vessels.
In order to document your vessel in the federal system, you must be a US citizen.

The other type of "documentation" is to register your boat in the state in which you will be keeping the boat--Florida, in the case of the original poster. You can also title your boat in a state to show proof of ownership. The counties in Florida administer the boat registration/titling process. You do not need to be a US citizen to register or title a boat at the state level.

The last time I checked, if you buy a boat with the intent of moving it to Florida, you'll be required to pay a sales tax on the boat, as well as a fairly nominal registration and titling fee. If the boat was purchased more than six months before entering Florida, and wasn't purchased for the purpose of bringing it to Florida, you aren't liable for sales tax.
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 10:47   #14
Registered User
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 3,173
If you want to title and register the boat in Florida at the state level I don't think you'll have any problem but paying use tax. Since you are not a US Citizen you cannot get USCG documentation (the equivalent of a US national Flag or Title). In the US or or carribean this makes little difference. The one major difference it will make is taking the boat to cuba. With a UK or European Flag you could go to cuba, and I suppose you still can, but the boat cannot, at least legally, except under special permit for the time being.
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 10:50   #15
Registered User
 
Islander's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 166
I think there may be some confusion between state registered and US Coast Guard documented vessels. As far as I know, anyone can register a boat in a US state but one must be a US citizen to get USCG documentation.

Some countries accept a US state registration for entry (Canada does but I think Mexico doesn't) but in most cases a boat must be USCG documented to travel internationally.

Cheers
Islander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing from USA to Australia Johnathon123 Seamanship & Boat Handling 56 07-08-2011 05:16
Sailing from LA to the Carribbean as a British Citizen rawkuz Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 5 12-10-2010 10:29
Sailing Cancun, Mexico to British Columbia KCee Pacific & South China Sea 7 20-08-2010 21:32
UK flagged vessel with US owner caribcraig Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 6 16-12-2008 00:54
How long can a USA Flagged vessel stay capcook Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 8 22-07-2008 13:01

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.