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Old 15-12-2020, 06:43   #16
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

It cost me 8 grand to truck my wrecked Cat 700 miles to a local Yard where I could work on it,
I put two new hulls in it and all systems had to be replaced or renewed,

Can you find a vacant block of land near you that you can put your boat on to work on it,
Not a Marine block of land, Very Exy,
Buy a shipping container to put on the block, It can take all your tools, Lockable, You can sleep in it,
Get a generator for power, 2nd hand diesel to run all your equiptment,
ASA 400 mobile welder will do you, They have two or three power out lets, They are cheap, but heavy, Get one on a trailer, you can tow it with your car,

A house removalist trucking company is best, They have hydraulic trailers that lift up and down and spread sideways, No crane needed,
They can get all the permits required as well to move your boat,

Get friendly with a local surf board maker, They will teach you to fibreglass real quick,
Young people are very friendly if your interested in their work,
They may even find people to work on your boat for you as well,
They are very switched on,

Wish you well, Im 72, and going sailing,

My boat 3 years ago, and now back in the water and fully tested,

Cheers, Brian,
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Old 15-12-2020, 07:20   #17
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

I have been in the same boat. After a sinking, I rebuilt our 40 ft. Yawl. Basic scope of work was: everything that could be unbolted, stripped, or sanded off and replaced was. My wife and and I had retired a few years before that to cruise for a few years. My refit took 4 years of 40 hour weeks. I was extremely fortunate in the distance to the job site- 10 minutes if I caught the lights wrong. No doubt as you knew before you began your task that commuting is extremely inefficient, compounded by the breakage, shortage, or loss of tools and supplies. If you can get your boat moved ( big if) Iím sure youíve realized you can use any accessible vacant lot. I used the back lot of a local outboard dealer, selected only because he was close. A used car dealer, or contractors equipment yard- any place will work. A good fence for security is more important than electricity. Get a small job site generator for that it- will expand your options.
As far as sail boat versus power boat: you already are adept at boat handling and maintenance. The broad strokes of sailing will be picked up in a weekend, the fine points will come incrementally the rest of your life. At least thatís how itís worked out for me, and Iíve been sailing since 1961.
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Old 15-12-2020, 15:49   #18
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

I thought I would take a few moments to clear up and respond to some of the comments made on this thread.

The risk of posting details about your project on a forum is that the critics and naysayers come out of the woodwork to criticize what you are doing. Knowing this, I decided to start the thread anyway for several reasons. For one, I knew that there would be some tasks that I would need advice on and there is no sense reinventing the wheel. Inputs and advice from (experienced) others may be a big time saver for me. Second, setting aside the critics for a moment it was my belief that the camaraderie is likely to generate new friends and acquaintances for me that I otherwise would not have an opportunity to meet. This has already happened from other Columbia 45 owners. Thirdly, the forum has led to contacts with others that are experts in various fields of boat construction and boat repairs. By posting my questions and occasional difficulties along the way, I am hoping to get advice and responses from others that will save me time and perform the tasks in a more professional manner.

My response to the critics and naysayers is to ignore them and move on with my project. In some cases it is obvious they have not read the whole thread and are simply taking pot shots as a result of only reading one post or two.
To clear up any misinterpretations in my previous postings as well as defend my decisions up to this point, I will address some of the more egregious comments. Here are a few.....

"my 2 cents would be to pay a couple hundred bucks for a rigger to inspect the rig. It would be a shame to install a new engine and generator only to have the rig fail and you lose the mast."
I don't know how someone in Guatemala knows that it would only cost a couple hundred bucks to have the rigging inspected in Portland, Oregon. I am still waiting for him to provide me the name and phone number of the rigger and I will be very happy to call on him when I am ready for the inspection.
Secondly, the mast was re-stepped and new rigging installed not long ago, so I don't expect the rigging to fail especially if I motor the boat down the coast.

"My 2 cents. Pay to have the boat moved south and pay to have it stored on the hard. You can work up a quote here. get a couple and compare. Boat Hauling Rates"

I probably spent 30 - 40 man hours researching the option of having it hauled. This includes the various complications of the height of the boat above the limits of various states, pilot cars, and the complications involved with the boat yards at both ends in disassembling the masts and reassembling them as well as the re-rigging.

Some of the haulers could not answer questions and there was always a caveat that unforeseen costs would be on me. There was also an issue about getting the boat out of the existing marina due to a very steep grade and sharp turn. Only some types of trailers could do the job and only one hauler knew anything about the limitations getting access to the highway.

I had to make the tough choice and it is still not cast in concrete. My choice was to attempt to get the boat seaworthy in it's present location and motor it down the coast to Long Beach. If that doesn't work, I always can exercise the option to have it hauled by truck.

"A Columbia 45 is not really a desirable boat and after its all said and done you might get 30 cents on the dollar when you sell."

First of all, I doubt the poster has ever owned a C45, sailed on a C45, or knows anyone that has. I spent hundreds of hours researching different boats and had made a decision to purchase the best value I could find in a low cost boat that would serve my sailing, cruising, and fishing needs.

The fact that I would need to do a lot of work on the chosen boat was a given. The most credible reviews I looked at were from present and former owners of C45's. As it turns out there are quite a few. For example... https://www.sailnet.com/threads/is-t...-worthy.70171/.

I have since had long conversations with Jim from SV NWTrader as well as two other C45 owners. As best as I can tell, the skeptics have never owned or sailed on a C45.

Lastly, I have never bought anything based up the resale value (except maybe my home). I make purchases based upon what I want for my needs and what the ultimate cost will be and whether I want it bad enough to pay that amount. Selling something doesn't even enter my mind. I don't consider it a transient event.

As far as this boat goes, the attraction was a solid sturdy hull and nearly everything on it was brand new (albeit not completely installed). I reasoned that the sweat equity I put into it will more than make up the difference in price between this outcome and purchasing a 'ready to go' boat with the same equipment.

As far as the 30 cents on the dollar at resale, I don't even think about It, but don't know how someone that does not know the inventory of the equipment on the boat, nor the purchase price can make such a claim. It really doesn't matter. If I get the enjoyment I expect from the boat over the time I own it, it doesn't matter what the resale value is.

Same is true about my vehicles, former airplanes, helicopter, test equipment, machine shop equipment, etc. If I looked at these purchases as investments for resale I probably would not buy anything.

" You should have done your homework before purchasing the boat as to the cost of what it might need."

In fact I did as much research prior to the purchase as I could but obviously fell short in some areas. There were some surprises!

The cost and complexity of shipping by truck,

Throughout Multnomah County (Portland) no one can work on their own boat in a boatyard. County wide restriction. Nice for the boatyards though ,

Restrictions on living aboard while working on your boat while in the marina (add motel costs),

Difficulty in finding local help (even unskilled) for a reasonable price,

Unforeseen complications in the refit such as a new exhaust system with some unexpected restrictions,

Some existing installations that need to be redesigned and done differently.

Yes, there were unexpected surprises, but in reading throughout the boating forums it seems to go with the territory. If I were perfect I would have the money to buy a super-yacht and not care what anyone else thinks.
I don't see any of these obstacles to be catastrophic.

So let's put it into perspective. I pay about $200/month for the boat to sit in a slip in a nice marina that is well guarded and protected. Has restrooms and showers. The marina owner would like to have his boat yard do all the work but knows I cannot afford that and allows you to work on your boats in the slip.

I am in no panic to get the boat completed. It would be nice to get it seaworthy and ready to sail/motor by Spring. The weather will be nicer for the trip at that time anyway.

The slip in Long Beach (Wilmington) is about $650/month and I am not having to pay for it until I arrive.

I plan to tackle each obstacle as they come and hopefully be ready in Spring. I also have an old sea dog (my age) at the marina that keeps an eye on my boat and calls me periodically. We might even do some sailing together in the future.

As far as abandoning the project.... NOT! I have experienced far greater challenges and odds and have overcome them in the past. I think the SBA gave me odds of 50,000:! of not succeeding when I started my business. Past that hurdle with flying colors.

The complete tear-down and overhaul of the helicopter took several months and was a success. I am not worried about this project, nor the skeptics and critics opinions.
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Old 15-12-2020, 16:08   #19
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
It cost me 8 grand to truck my wrecked Cat 700 miles to a local Yard where I could work on it,
I put two new hulls in it and all systems had to be replaced or renewed,

Can you find a vacant block of land near you that you can put your boat on to work on it,
Not a Marine block of land, Very Exy,
Buy a shipping container to put on the block, It can take all your tools, Lockable, You can sleep in it,
Get a generator for power, 2nd hand diesel to run all your equiptment,
ASA 400 mobile welder will do you, They have two or three power out lets, They are cheap, but heavy, Get one on a trailer, you can tow it with your car,

A house removalist trucking company is best, They have hydraulic trailers that lift up and down and spread sideways, No crane needed,
They can get all the permits required as well to move your boat,

Get friendly with a local surf board maker, They will teach you to fibreglass real quick,
Young people are very friendly if your interested in their work,
They may even find people to work on your boat for you as well,
They are very switched on,

Wish you well, Im 72, and going sailing,

My boat 3 years ago, and now back in the water and fully tested,

Cheers, Brian,
Thank you for the constructive comments. If the refit were a more complicated case, I would probably do something like you suggest. Hopefully, the installation of the remaining equipment can be done while in a slip.

Before leaving Portland I will have a haul out and the bottom washed and painted. I am likely to also need the Spurs line cutter moved about an inch forward on the shaft because I need to move the shaft/prop back about an inch for the engine mounting vibration isolators to sit properly on the engine bed. I have already discussed it with the boat yard manager.

At the same time I will take many photos of the bottom of the boat so that I have a record of all the thru-hull and transducer locations.

Thanks again
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Old 15-12-2020, 16:15   #20
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
My guess is you heard this right. I don't know if it's liability, environmental issues, DIY hassle factor, or that it's more profitable to work on a boat than just store it, but yards are moving away from allowing DIY labor. When I hauled and painted my bottom at Berkeley Marine Center (SF Bay) two years ago, they had a very limited number of DIY slots and had a healthy wait-list for those. My understanding was even that accommodation was becoming unusual, at least in the Bay Area.

Peter
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Old 15-12-2020, 16:17   #21
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse View Post
I have been in the same boat. After a sinking, I rebuilt our 40 ft. Yawl. Basic scope of work was: everything that could be unbolted, stripped, or sanded off and replaced was. My wife and and I had retired a few years before that to cruise for a few years. My refit took 4 years of 40 hour weeks. I was extremely fortunate in the distance to the job site- 10 minutes if I caught the lights wrong. No doubt as you knew before you began your task that commuting is extremely inefficient, compounded by the breakage, shortage, or loss of tools and supplies. If you can get your boat moved ( big if) Iím sure youíve realized you can use any accessible vacant lot. I used the back lot of a local outboard dealer, selected only because he was close. A used car dealer, or contractors equipment yard- any place will work. A good fence for security is more important than electricity. Get a small job site generator for that it- will expand your options.
As far as sail boat versus power boat: you already are adept at boat handling and maintenance. The broad strokes of sailing will be picked up in a weekend, the fine points will come incrementally the rest of your life. At least thatís how itís worked out for me, and Iíve been sailing since 1961.
Wow, your project was far larger than mine. Got to hand it to you for doing the complete rebuild. It must have been a huge task.

Thanks for the comments.
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Old 15-12-2020, 17:25   #22
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

I reread the OPs posts. He did not ask any questions, only asked for best wishes. I wholeheartedly offer those regards.

Best success! I look forward to updates if you're inclined to share.

Peter
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Old 15-12-2020, 19:12   #23
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

Donít let the bastards get you down. This forum, like most, is full of armchair naysayers who are long on opinion but short on true experience. You have a lot of work to do, but you know it. A disadvantage you have to cope with is California is full of avaricious predators. My daughter lives there, I visit and sail there often, and it can be a wonderful place if you can get beyond commerce. I, however, shall remain in Texas in the land of my ancestors for five generations, equally avaricious but not quite as creative in how it can be applied.
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Old 15-12-2020, 19:31   #24
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

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Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse View Post
Donít let the bastards get you down. This forum, like most, is full of armchair naysayers who are long on opinion but short on true experience. You have a lot of work to do, but you know it. A disadvantage you have to cope with is California is full of avaricious predators. My daughter lives there, I visit and sail there often, and it can be a wonderful place if you can get beyond commerce. I, however, shall remain in Texas in the land of my ancestors for five generations, equally avaricious but not quite as creative in how it can be applied.


Thanks for the encouragement. We have had a number of technicians and engineers quit their jobs here and moved to Texas. If things get bad enough here, I might join you.
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Old 15-12-2020, 19:40   #25
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

Now I know why I sail alone on a 28ft. boat.
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Old 15-12-2020, 20:07   #26
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

At 78, if you want to take on the project and frustration associated with what has been mentioned, your choice. I assume you have the funds and could buy a more ready to sail boat and could sail ASAP. Your choice, frustration on land or sailing. I know what I want, Iím much younger than you (65...).
What do you enjoy is up to you.
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Old 15-12-2020, 23:09   #27
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

This might be a dumb question, but is land transportation the only way to move a boat? Could you not inspect the hull to make sure it is seaworthy, and then launch it, and hire someone to tow it South?
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Old 16-12-2020, 00:18   #28
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

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This might be a dumb question, but is land transportation the only way to move a boat? Could you not inspect the hull to make sure it is seaworthy, and then launch it, and hire someone to tow it South?
No, it is not the only way it could be transported. I looked into a sea delivery via large ship like the racing yachts use but it is considerably more expensive than truck delivery and they seem to only run when there are many yachts going to the same place.

I suppose it would fit in a guppy or 747 (with it de-masted) but hardly practical.

I never considered having it towed, but from the rescue videos I have watched, towing it 800 miles didn't seem like a plausible solution but perhaps others may want to comment.
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Old 16-12-2020, 04:43   #29
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

Two years ago, I decided to have my aging and decaying 1970 Willard 36 trawler refit/repaint/remodel. Financially, decision depended on getting the boat to Mexico, 500 nms from her berth in San Francisco. Engine hadn't run in years, mast was rotten, and generally in rough shape. I looked into trucking but height was a challenge - I was pretty sure it wouldn't be under 13'6" without removing flybridge, the magic number before you trigger all sorts of additional escort vehicle requirements. Best I could figure, $10k might do it....not including yard work on either end.

I was in Florida, boat in San Francisco so logistics were even worse than OP. Fortunately, a mechanic I had known for years was still around, still going strong. He cut me a slight break on labor charges (though still north of $100/hr). I ended up spending around $7k-$8k on repairs to get the boat seaworthy and took the boat on her own bottom 3-days nonstop from SF to Ensenada. Was a good trip, and a better investment to repair vs trucking as I ended up with an engine that is now in top shape with all new pumps, exhaust manifold, hoses, heat exchanger, etc.

Peter
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Old 16-12-2020, 10:32   #30
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Re: 78 And Starting Over - From Power to Sail

Peter,

Sounds encouraging. Sounds like you were doing close to 200 miles a day. What kind of SOG were you observing most of the time? What time of year was the trip and how was the sea state? Did you have a crew?

Doug
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