2QM20 starter motor replacement

[Robmcfarlane]

Hi all. This is my first post to the group. I'm hoping someone can tell if I need a sealed starter (wet clutch) type to replace my original hitachi S114-206 for my 2QM20 yanmar? I have read over all the posts and spent hours googling info on this. No where does it state that a replacement has to be a wet clutch type, like I've been told from an expert. I can find lots of new replacements, but none are wet clutch. Hope someone can clear this up for me. Thank you in advance 👍

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Rob.

A normal dry clutch starter, without the necessary seals, cannot be used to replace a wet clutch unit.
A wet clutch unit, however, can be used to replace a normal dry clutch application starter. A “Tell-Tale” sign that a unit is a Wet Clutch Application starter is that there is an O-ring on the spiggot or a groove for the O-ring on the Spiggot, which effectively seals the nose of the starter in the bell housing when it is mounted.
“Getting to know Starters and Alternators” ➥ https://www.electrolog.com/assets/do...nformation.pdf

[Wotname]

Rob, welcome aboard CF. Good to see another 2QM20 owner!

First up, I suggest you consider getting the existing Hitachi starter motor repaired - assuming you live somewhere close to a suitable repair shop - you will end up with a better starter motor than many of the Asian replacements.

The wet clutch requirement means the stater motor needs an oil seal on the shaft between the shift lever and the armature; this keeps the oil transmission oil (wet clutch) away from the brushes and commutator.

You might this thread interesting - it is mainly about a Y series Yanmar starter motor but the principles apply equally to the QM series.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...r-43821-2.html

[Wotname]

Well done Gord, you posted faster

[Robmcfarlane]

Thanks guys for the welcome and responses. I understand that I need to replace it with a sealed unit. The modern equivalent are not wet clutch type. I'm in Australia, and have been unable to find any make or model that are sealed. Any suggestions? The motor had been tested and appears ok, though the selonoid is burnt out unrepairable. I'm still searching for a suitable selonoid. Even that seems hopeless. Wot have others replaced there S114-206 with?

[Wotname]

Have you seen this thread - http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...nd-147994.html

[Robmcfarlane]

Hi wotname. I did read this thread and contacted the sth Australian supplier but they referred me to several supplies here in west aus, but still no one can supply me with with a wet clutch starter. My only option so far seems to be a high torque starter from the US that will have to be modified and seals installed before shipping to AUS! Seems crazy to me.... and i don't have the time to wait for that option

[Wotname]

I fitted a 3QM30 starter motor to my 2QM20 and there were only two minor issues - see http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ty-209865.html

Presumably you have tried Minards (NSW) for a replacement. There is also one (or two) places in Qld that advertise QM parts on Gumtree.

Do you know what the issue is with the solenoid, i.e. is the coil burnt out or are the contacts burnt out? If it is only burnt contacts, you could possibly jury rig another remote solenoid to provide the high current path and use the existing solenoid to throw the shift lever. Be aware I haven't tried this or given it any amount of hard thought until now .

[Robmcfarlane]

Yup I've read that thread too. Haven't tried minards yet. Will call them in the morning. I've contacted the qld suppliers though, that say they have replacement 2QM starters but..... they aren't wet clutch ��

[Compass790]

I assume you have googled them but.https://www.hardin-marine.com/p-1200...er-yanmar.aspx
Freight will be expensive.
Pity you didn't post a couple of weeks ago, there was one on Trademe ( like gumtree ) for $30
Hoyes tractor in the USA mite have them. base motor was used in YM2000 tractor I think

[Robmcfarlane]

Guys, thanks heaps for the info. I have, almost miraculously found an exact replacement (that is sealed and wet clutch type) 24kms away from where I live here in Perth.... and it's a perfect working original. Can't believe my luck. So, I'm starting to think my 2QM20 (H), beside being a 5.5L oil capacity, has a few other differences.... like the only motor that requires a wet clutch starter? Am I correct? Or are all 2QMs oil flooded bell housings? I'd really like you know for reference. Cheers all

[Wotname]

^^ excellent, good find!

All the QM series have a wet clutch, some with a single disc and some with a multi disc - but all are wet!

The H designator means it has a KBW10A gearbox (a Hurth box made under licence by Kanzaki). Your clutch is a multi disc wet type.

[Robmcfarlane]

Single disc, multi clutch? We still talking starter motors wotname?

[Compass790]

I guess you need to search for a workshop/service manual. I was chore avoiding & found this googling FYI
QM Series
The QM series was available either sea-water or fresh-water cooled. 2:1 or 3:1 transmissions. A designation of F near the end of the model means it is fresh-water cooled. F=Factory Fresh Water This series includes the following engines: EngineHPYears In ProductionComments2QM- originally only distributed in Japan2QM15151977 - 19802 Cylinder2QM20221975 - 1980Engines with serial numbers 0001 - 0030 were prototypes and may require different parts. Engines with serial numbers 80001 - 80930 and 81131 - 81180 were also different from the primary production models and may require different parts. Engines with serial numbers 80931 - 81130 and any serial number higher than 81181 will use standard 2QM20 parts.2QM20(F)221975 - 19802 Cylinder2QM20(H)221975 - 19802 Cylinder3QM- originally only distributed in Japan3QM3033197:
Don't know about different starters for them.
Our YSM8 has a wet ring gear starter but it's probably smaller than a 2qm20 starter

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Robmcfarlane

Single disc, multi clutch? We still talking starter motors wotname?

Hey, it's a fast moving thread - you gotta keep up

OK, maybe I was too cryptic with my reply - it was getting late (for me). Allow me to expand - I understood you were asking if your 2QM20(H) has any differences from other 2QM20 engines; in particular the requirement for needing a starter motor suitable for a wet clutch.

Originally Posted by Robmcfarlane

........... So, I'm starting to think my 2QM20 (H), beside being a 5.5L oil capacity, has a few other differences.... like the only motor that requires a wet clutch starter? Am I correct? Or are all 2QMs oil flooded bell housings? I'd really like you know for reference. Cheers all

So a more wordy answer is - all the QM series need a sealed wet clutch style starter motor. They all have oil flooded bell housing.

Leaving aside the 2QM15, the 2QM and the few engines mentioned in Compass790's post, the 2QM20 came with various designators, namely 2QM20, 2QM20B, 2QM20H, 2QM20Y and 2QM20F.

The differences related to the make and model of gearbox fitted and the cooling system. All other major components (including the starter motor) are the same.

For your engine, the H designator tells us it is raw water cooled engine fitted with Kanzaki-Hurth KBW10A gearbox which contains a multi disc wet clutch. There are two ahead reduction ratios available for this box - 2.14 or 2.83 but only one astern ratio - 2.5

Other designators refer to other gearboxs (and cooling systems) and some of those boxes have a single disc wet clutch.

This assumes other owners haven't changed anything e.g. my engine is nameplated as a 2QM20H yet someone have fitted a YP10M gearbox (made AFAIK by Yanmar) which effectively makes it a 2QM20B.

The take away is your 2QM20H is the same as all the other 2QM20series except for the cooling and the gearbox/clutch.