World population is growing 20 million people every 3 months

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We just signed a second solar array agreement for our home and business which will make us just over 100% energy independent in the US at 15kw. Our boat runs off 300-400 gallons of diesel per six months.

Most of the hand-wringing contributors on this thread probably can't claim the same, but never the less... the apocalyptic hand wringing continues.

Meanwhile... solar along with diesel and a 450amp storage bank of basically Trogan golf cart batteries sustain us.

Good deal and it seems we have been here before on a thread the winter of 15-16. I'm considering on adding another 4dD and another 100 to my home/boat as.well. but we are a rarity in the world.

[a64pilot]

So, what is the size of the battery bank for a 15 KW Solar system?
I'm assuming grid tie? If so how does that make you energy independent?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So, what is the size of the battery bank for a 15 KW Solar system?
I'm assuming grid tie? If so how does that make you energy independent?

Obviously, you aren't aware of the requirements and complexities of a home or business solar array. It's a requirement that the system be interconnected to the grid, the surplus electrical power generated during the day or during the high production months is carried forward as a credit to be used during the low production months and at night... when most solar arrays produce zero. At the end of the year, there should be a zero balance. Sort of like the meter goes forwards... the meter goes backwards. That's the way it works... no batteries.... no other choice if one plans on obtaining a building permit to install an array. So yes, the two arrays which total 15kw supply all the electrical power us and our tenants use over the entire year along with energy conservation measures which include extensive use of LED lighting.

Without the two arrays, our annual electrical bill would be somewhere between $5,000-$6,000 dollars or closer to $10,000 without the LED lighting. With the arrays it is $0, making us the very definition of energy independent.

On the boat, we use a 450amp battery bank of Trojans.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So, what is the size of the battery bank for a 15 KW Solar system?
I'm assuming grid tie? If so how does that make you energy independent?

Two or three of these at an estimated $5500 each
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

[a64pilot]

I am familiar with grid tie systems, myself I do not think of them as making you energy independent. Independent means cut the cord, not tie into it. Me thinks it has more to do with a tax incentive, government support etc., than energy independence.
Don't get me wrong, I traded in an old Z28 I had laying around the first day the cash for clunkers was announced. I'm not Holier than thou.

Would you think for example If I decided to grow a garden that I should be able to force the local grocer into buying any that I decided was excess? Then of course we have to make it so that he keeps food on hand for those times I want more or the weather was bad or there wasn't enough rain etc., but he has to buy any food I don't want.
Think that is fair?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I am familiar with grid tie systems, myself I do not think of them as making you energy independent. Independent means cut the cord, not tie into it. Me thinks it has more to do with a tax incentive, government support etc., than energy independence.
Don't get me wrong, I traded in an old Z28 I had laying around the first day the cash for clunkers was announced. I'm not Holier than thou.

Would you think for example If I decided to grow a garden that I should be able to force the local grocer into buying any that I decided was excess? Then of course we have to make it so that he keeps food on hand for those times I want more or the weather was bad or there wasn't enough rain etc., but he has to buy any food I don't want.
Think that is fair?

Then just keep wringing your hands or go live like a caveman. Your choice.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to be a little more proactive.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UAEguy

GEOPOLITICAL REASONS - Break that statement down and you'll understand that geopolitical is all about resources.

WW2 and the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor was all about oil.

Dig into the history of Oil and WW2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_ca...f_World_War_II


Now, ask yourself why we give a sh*t about what is happening in Syria? It is all about oil and gas pipeline access to the Med.

The Oil-Gas War Over Syria (In 4 Maps) | Zero Hedge

Also read a bit about the history of the "Friendship Pipeline"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq-Syria_pipeline

WWII was not at all about oil (!).

But this is too far off topic to engage in this space.

[a64pilot]

Nope, I sold it and begin cruising full time in two months.
You keep the grid tie, and the snow too

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

WWII was not at all about oil (!).

But this is too far off topic to engage in this space.

I would think a very logical argument that the US's involvement had a lot to do with us denying Japan oil.
However it is way off topic, but it is a scuttlebutt / off topic forum, so long as it's kept nice why not?

What is a "scuttlebutt" anyway, is that a dog with an itchy butt, you know the little one that drags it around the carpet?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UAEguy

Petroleum and it's related products are impossible to replace in modern society due to their critical use as feedstocks in the production of plastic, rubber, chemicals, and pharmaceuticals.

Good luck finding replacements for those ingredients using batteries, solar or even nuclear.

When petroleum runs out, we return to the stone age.

Why should we ever need to replace oil for plastic? Only 4% of oil production is enough for the whole world's plastics. And plastic doesn't actually use up all of what little oil is needed to produce it -- most plastics can be recycled. Furthermore, oil is not the only feedstock for plastic -- it's merely the cheapest at the moment. It's actually pretty straightforward to make plastic out of biological feed stocks -- see: http://www.bpf.co.uk/plastipedia/pol...uk_market.aspx. Stone age, shmone age.

Non-fuel uses are far higher value uses, then just burning it. It will become too expensive to just burn like that long before it's too expensive to make plastic with. Oil doesn't just "run out", like one day the tank is still putting out and the next day it's dry. There's oil all over the earth, some of it cheap and easy to get out, some of it harder and more expensive, and so forth. Rather than just "running out", if we do in fact continue using it long enough for it to become significantly harder to extract (which I seriously doubt), then in that case it will simply get more and more expensive, and the market will naturally move away from oil as fuel.

Don't worry; be happy.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I would think a very logical argument that the US's involvement had a lot to do with us denying Japan oil.
However it is way off topic, but it is a scuttlebutt / off topic forum, so lang as it's kept nice why not?

What is a "scuttlebutt" anyway, is that a dog with an itchy butt, you know the little one that drags it around the carpet?

Actually a scuttlebutt is a nava ppl term for a.water cask or watercooler.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttlebutt

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I am familiar with grid tie systems, myself I do not think of them as making you energy independent. Independent means cut the cord, not tie into it. Me thinks it has more to do with a tax incentive, government support etc., than energy independence.
Don't get me wrong, I traded in an old Z28 I had laying around the first day the cash for clunkers was announced. I'm not Holier than thou.

Would you think for example If I decided to grow a garden that I should be able to force the local grocer into buying any that I decided was excess? Then of course we have to make it so that he keeps food on hand for those times I want more or the weather was bad or there wasn't enough rain etc., but he has to buy any food I don't want.
Think that is fair?

we already have a system in place that works similar its called a farmers market.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Nope, I sold it and begin cruising full time in two months.
You keep the grid tie, and the snow too

And you stay hooked up to the fuel dock and marina shore power.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I would think a very logical argument that the US's involvement had a lot to do with us denying Japan oil.
However it is way off topic, but it is a scuttlebutt / off topic forum, so long as it's kept nice why not?

What is a "scuttlebutt" anyway, is that a dog with an itchy butt, you know the little one that drags it around the carpet?

The U.S. denying Japan oil (in 1941 -- many years after the war had already started) was a tactical thing (and a stupid move in my view, forcing their hand), many levels away from the strategic causes of the war (which started really in 1931 with the invasion of Manchuria). The real causes of the war are actually quite similar to the causes of the European war -- and wacky, ultra-aggressive and militaristic fascist ideologies, with ideas about Lebensraum, imperial glory, and such carp, played leading roles in both.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Why not.. us folksy backwoods people love a good laugh watching our 'Betters' smugly pat themselves on the back..
Poor people in India did/do not breed every year for a work force of 9-11 kids.. they did/do it because there was a chance 1 or 2 might live long enough to start work.. and the women don't have a choice..
Been watching some twat on Sky blathering on about the 'Universal Wage'.. another con like the Minimum Wage.. designed to take more control away from the majority and place it in the hands of the minority.. who you can lay odds of a Trillion to 1 will not be subject to it.
Too 'Commie' to have the President/Prime Minister earning the same as a dustman.. and I can't see Bush, the Clintons or the Senate going for it either.. and they're all well past their sell by date from what I see.. as for the House of Lords on £400+/day expenses.. your having a laugh..

India's total fertility rate in 2012 was 2.50 and declining and for exactly the same reasons that the UK' s dropped in Victorian times - movement off the farms, mechanization on the farms, empowerment of women (education and jobs). All these things take time and I don't mean 10 years, more like 50 or 75. China used the One-Child policy, with considerable and some nasty long-term consequences, to speed up the process of demographic transition.