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Old 13-05-2019, 19:14   #226
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

This is just to illustrate my point.
Pick a spot .
Then explain the whole thing .
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Old 13-05-2019, 19:19   #227
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Now back to the topic of this thread
Is this study right or wrong?
https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...0512-noaa.html

Please provide evidentiary for your views if they are contrary to the study findings.
Well I can't check the conclusions stated in the link with a research program and peer reviewed publications but I can apply a bit of common sense in support of them:

The O&G producers make their profits from selling oil and gas consequently
it's in their interests to minimize waste.

Governments collect royalty from the oil & gas produced and consequently
it's in their interests to regulate for minimal wastage of the resource.

Like the swimming pool heating with methane from old land fill garbage
dumps a lot of manufacturing and service industries are now waste
methane harvesting for plant heat and power generation.

A vital component of the market is the private sector wealth creators. An example of their activities is oil production in the United States. The United States was a short time ago the worlds largest oil importer. For various reasons (not least of which was the interference of politicians) the price of oil rose sufficiently to make the extraction of oil from deeply buried shales commercial. Because of the extreme flexibility provided by it's market driven economy the United States rapidly again became an oil exporter.

I have no doubts that if the climate warms enough to melt the permafrost in the arctic, private industry will have the entire arctic covered in a plastic sheet in order to harvest the resulting methane and sell it to consumers. PROVIDED OF COURSE THAT THEY CAN GET THE REQUISITE ENVIRONMENTAL APPROVALS BEFORE IT DISSIPATES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.
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Old 13-05-2019, 19:48   #228
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
Well I can't check the conclusions stated in the link with a research program and peer reviewed publications but I can apply a bit of common sense in support of them:

The O&G producers make their profits from selling oil and gas consequently
it's in their interests to minimize waste.

Governments collect royalty from the oil & gas produced and consequently
it's in their interests to regulate for minimal wastage of the resource.

Like the swimming pool heating with methane from old land fill garbage
dumps a lot of manufacturing and service industries are now waste
methane harvesting for plant heat and power generation.

A vital component of the market is the private sector wealth creators. An example of their activities is oil production in the United States. The United States was a short time ago the worlds largest oil importer. For various reasons (not least of which was the interference of politicians) the price of oil rose sufficiently to make the extraction of oil from deeply buried shales commercial. Because of the extreme flexibility provided by it's market driven economy the United States rapidly again became an oil exporter.

I have no doubts that if the climate warms enough to melt the permafrost in the arctic, private industry will have the entire arctic covered in a plastic sheet in order to harvest the resulting methane and sell it to consumers. PROVIDED OF COURSE THAT THEY CAN GET THE REQUISITE ENVIRONMENTAL APPROVALS BEFORE IT DISSIPATES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.
perhaps you should have used the doi link at the end of the article
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....9/2018GL081731
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Old 13-05-2019, 20:06   #229
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

Sound like some of us might consider lavender essential oil to calm the nerves. From that last bastion of peer reviewed science Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...t-anxiety.html

The world will still end horribly but we’ll feel better about it I guess.
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Old 13-05-2019, 20:51   #230
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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Sound like some of us might consider lavender essential oil to calm the nerves. From that last bastion of peer reviewed science Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...t-anxiety.html

The world will still end horribly but we’ll feel better about it I guess.
In the alternative, CBD (not THC). The term for erasing/losing the negative/maladaptive thoughts and emotional response is ironically called fear extinction. In addition to calming the nerves this stuff might help some become less fearful of extinction...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5121237/
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Old 13-05-2019, 20:55   #231
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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Sound like some of us might consider lavender essential oil to calm the nerves. From that last bastion of peer reviewed science Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...t-anxiety.html

The world will still end horribly but we’ll feel better about it I guess.
this one seems most appropriate to post
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Old 13-05-2019, 21:02   #232
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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The Forbes article - sorry, op-ed from an oil industry exec - while accurate as far as it goes, is the bullsh!t. It completely ignores externalities and excludes tax credits as subsidies. The FF industry pays honking taxes because of the honking profits they generate.
We've covered this before in (much) earlier threads. The FF industry's historical profits are actually lower than many other major industries, and much more volatile. Do we need to re-post those charts & graphs again?

You don't dispute the accuracy of an article penned by an expert in the industry but call bullsh!t nevertheless. What are the "externalities" you claim he ignored? What tax credits are you referring to, and why do you think they equate to direct payments? Because that's what Rolling Stone thinks, what the NRDC assumes, or what the highly politicized, agenda driven IMF believes you should think?

The wars and ongoing security provided by the US and other govts were and are paid for by taxpayers to protect what is still -- like it or not -- a vital national resource. These are the same taxpayers who would be required to pay again for these "externalities," only this time at the gas pump. Meanwhile the US has reduced CO2 emissions, through technological innovation alone, more than any other single nation on the planet. But we are told that we need to pay higher taxes for an indispensable commodity or we are all doomed, all while China outpaces the rest of the world in its own emissions, to say nothing of spreading coal plants to other parts of the developing world.

Meanwhile we have also consistently been told that the FF industry is singled out, thanks to their corrupt representatives in govt, for special tax breaks and "subsidies." Whether you choose to use the commonly held defn or ones cooked up by partisan sources, the message is that the industry is getting special treatment which is artificially lowering the price of their product. It turns out that this is about as truthful as the alarmism SailOar has been shoveling out about methane over the past 10 years of natural gas production.

Most people have no illusions about the obvious downsides of fossil fuels and our need to eventually wean ourselves off of it. But you can work towards realistic solutions without demonizing an entire industry for merely producing what the world has been demanding. But then it's always been human nature to find convenient villains, and it's certainly easier to vilify than it is to work towards solutions in a responsible manner.
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Old 13-05-2019, 21:11   #233
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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What? If you review historical gas sales figures, price spikes DO affect consumption. People ARE responsive to price changes. Companies even more so. Why would you think they aren't?


Economists seem convinced.
Paywalled.

How much of a price spike is necessary to affect consumption in a meaningful way? Yes, people are responsive to the price of essential commodities, but obviously less so than more discretionary goods. But that only means they'd also be responsive to the rebates commonly touted as a way of countering the disproportionate tax burden on lower income people. Have you really thought this through, or is what your select group of economists say good enough?
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Old 13-05-2019, 21:15   #234
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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The world will still end horribly but we’ll feel better about it I guess.
Seems to be what mostly matters to a lot of people these days.
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Old 13-05-2019, 21:44   #235
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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Seems to be what mostly matters to a lot of people these days.
Well here is my opinion on all that stuff
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Old 14-05-2019, 08:08   #236
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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Recall that in the US...maybe 2008-2010?...gasoline spiked to something like $4.20 per gallon. This had immediate/massive repercussions. All types of ersthwhile discretionary household spending was redirected to filling up the gas tank. The other markets (vacation destinations, going out to eat, etc) all noted immediate impact.

Today ~80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. While the basic price goes up/demand goes down relationship exists...there's really no room for movement on the household-level demand side when it comes to further taxes...at least no significant changes. Raise the tax on gasoline...a McDonalds and electronics store will have to close (kind of thing).
Well, first of all, if 80% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck, then that's a problem all by itself and you need to fix that. It's not a justification for squandering a finite resource.

Second - the price at the pump is just a small part of carbon programs. Their biggest impact will the changes they create or accelerate in the large users. The footprint of coal would convince power generators to move to nat gas sooner rather than later. Research into renewable alternatives would get a shot in the arm - particularly the need for better batteries or other storage. Perhaps new nuclear generators would become thinkable again.

Assuming that you sort of agree that fossil fuel use should be cut back... any ideas? We're not really seeing any changes from Exile's proposal, which is to DO NOTHING.
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Old 14-05-2019, 08:57   #237
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

I just have a question ( and yes I know I have been a willing participant )
when and how did this thread about the Likely hood of inaccuracy in scientific papers turn into another MMGW thread?

Do we see an agenda that is being perpetually pushed?
Or is it just how this type of topic will gravitate due to the views of the participants?
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Old 14-05-2019, 09:00   #238
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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Well, first of all, if 80% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck, then that's a problem all by itself and you need to fix that. It's not a justification for squandering a finite resource.

Second - the price at the pump is just a small part of carbon programs. Their biggest impact will the changes they create or accelerate in the large users. The footprint of coal would convince power generators to move to nat gas sooner rather than later. Research into renewable alternatives would get a shot in the arm - particularly the need for better batteries or other storage. Perhaps new nuclear generators would become thinkable again.

Assuming that you sort of agree that fossil fuel use should be cut back... any ideas? We're not really seeing any changes from Exile's proposal, which is to DO NOTHING.
actually the statistics are well down from the 80% paycheck to paycheck its now somewhere around 50% I know its still high but with wages increasing more than in the 8 years of the previous administration I hope it continues in its current direction.

Wages up unemployment down a good thing for any economy to be able to move forward.
Lets just hope it continues its upward climb.
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Old 14-05-2019, 09:09   #239
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

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Do we see an agenda that is being perpetually pushed?

I've always been disappointed that CF is occasionally a nurturing spot for CC denial. I believe that's not so much an agenda as a reflection of the average demographics (age, nationality, economic bracket) of yacht owners here.
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Old 14-05-2019, 09:16   #240
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Re: “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

Circle jerk in an echo chamber
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