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Old 25-03-2019, 05:54   #16
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The hate of realty

I think a lot of full time cruisers “sell everything” out of a desire to simplify their lives. Managing a property, a storage area, car registration etc. from afar can be a real pain in the butt, at least as far as my own experience goes. And when you’re far away from it all the expense of that starts to seem a bit illogical. You realize that everything except for one box in your storage unit could go and you wouldn’t miss any if it. I’m in the process of having a friend sell my car as I type this.

I’ve never heard of a cruiser with some philosophical objection to owning a house. That would strike me as a very odd position to hold.
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Old 25-03-2019, 06:10   #17
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Re: The hate of realty

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The feel I get is a lot of cruisers are stable financially. But they decide to "sell it all" and head of into the sunset.. If you do not have a significant emotional attachment to your house and are "okay" to sell it and sail.. why not rent it out?

Interesting question, seemingly framed in the pejorative, or at least from the commercial… but why not, or more to the point; why be burdened with it in the first place unless one is entertained with gardening, landscaping, mowing, gutter-cleaning, picture-hanging, taxes, etc., etc?

I love my (current) wife, therefor I now have a house (for her). I didn’t buy my first house until I was well into my 50s (several boats along the way, but only one live-aboard) and I did spend some years in the Real Estate industry – nothing wrong with it as a career, but owning one didn’t seem to interest me; just a box to sleep in. I’m not anti-material or anti-modern-society (never been a hippie although I did own the obligatory VW bus a few decades back – didn’t live in it…), just never saw any house including the one I now have that I thought I wanted to live in long-term… so there is another mindset. I recognize that for most people, “selling it all” and moving aboard is a big mental step, for me I’ve been there all my life (now in my 70s), or on my motorcycle (don’t stay in hotels much either).
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Old 25-03-2019, 06:18   #18
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pirate Re: The hate of realty

Folk sell up to release capital they can access quickly and to free them from ties/anchors ashore.
Although a house may increase in value its relative to its cost to replace it, so no real gain till its sold to downsize.
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Old 25-03-2019, 06:19   #19
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Re: The hate of realty

When I was trying to decided rent or sell, I looked around the area and noticed that my neighborhood was nice, but everything around it was in decline. I didn't think the house was going to appreciate at a rapid pace anymore, so I sold.



I don't plan on being a YouTuber, but I still want a retirement filled with slow travel and not owning a bunch of stuff.
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Old 25-03-2019, 07:08   #20
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Re: The hate of realty

does this delayed-property-aquisition option exist elsewhere?

in france, i can buy into a home with a downpayment and then make small monthly instalments for X years or when the person passes. the home becomes mine at that time.

the owner pay taxes and does regular maintenance until the switchover.



the big risk with this is always IF that person manages to hang on to life much longer than the average. and it is a big risk to take: Jeanne Calmant, France's longevity queen, outlived both the notary who bought into her home and his son. she lived to see 122 years.

and, yes, there is the other side of the coin:

recently in the press here, there was a story about a man who poisoned a woman so to recuperate her property earlier...
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Old 25-03-2019, 07:15   #21
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Re: The hate of realty

The political - economic profile of those trying to make a living posting videos online.

Does not line up with those able to invest in real estate.

Then again, plenty of wealthy investors do not believe today's RE market is a sensible source of **passive** income suitable for worry-free off-grid cruising. Too much like work.

Finally, I believe there may be a few cruisers philosophically / ethically opposed to such "rentier landlordism", but IMO an insignificant percentage.
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Old 25-03-2019, 07:19   #22
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Re: The hate of realty

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does this delayed-property-aquisition option exist elsewhere?
...
...recently in the press here, there was a story about a man who poisoned a woman so to recuperate her property earlier...
In the US we do have this, but to my knowledge it is limited to such arrangements between elderly homeowners and banks/investment groups (termed reverse-mortgages). Not between an elderly person and a younger person (though often at least children of elderly parents arrange such a thing).

Tangent: it's just a matter of time until we find hedge-fund manager types behind the scenes promoting euthenasia laws in the US.
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Old 25-03-2019, 07:19   #23
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Re: The hate of realty

We are in the market for a property. Last few years just doing winters aboard. We are young, not poor, and never cease to be amazed how expensive property is.

The distaste I have for realty comes from the fact that stepping out of the renter class essentially forces you to become an indentured servant. Mortgages, convenants, HOAs, OMG!

I guess we've been spoiled rotten by the lifestyle and experiences we've had on a boat.

Maybe a tiny home in the woods somewhere
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Old 25-03-2019, 07:46   #24
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Re: The hate of realty

It costs money to live.
As a 'dumb' American I can only think of a few ways:
1. You collect a pile of money and you draw down from that.
2. You invest a pile of money and live off the returns.
3. You invest a pile of money but live off the returns and draw down the pile as needed.
4. Work as you go.

Choice #3 would be a typical stock portfolio.
I choose #2. Specifically chose an absolute NNN real estate property. This is zero hassle assuming you don't finance the property, as they typically have balloon payment loans and banks may not find you credit worthy when it comes to time to renew. It also assumes the people/organization responsible for paying the rent remain financially stable enough to pay you.

I've compared the numbers and CRE (Commercial Real Estate) pays 50-100% more than an annuity. Plus when you die, you can pass down the CRE asset tax free (assuming less than 11-22 million USD depending on married or single). Compared to an annuity that will end when you die (or when you/your spouse die). Plus the depreciation resets back to zero so you kids can depreciate the same property for another 39 years, saving them money on taxes.

Again, this is an American's perspective based upon current law. And yes, this is a complete BS system that helps the rich get richer and doesn't help poor people at all, but it is the system I live in.
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Old 25-03-2019, 10:49   #25
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Re: The hate of realty

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In the US we do have this, but to my knowledge it is limited to such arrangements between elderly homeowners and banks/investment groups (termed reverse-mortgages). Not between an elderly person and a younger person (though often at least children of elderly parents arrange such a thing).

Tangent: it's just a matter of time until we find hedge-fund manager types behind the scenes promoting euthenasia laws in the US.


yes, i remember now (thanks: reversed mortgage). i knew a woman over there who did this and had some very angry offspring...

i do believe that one must be at least 65 to sell one's home as a viager over here. those who choose to do so are usually without kids. i'm not sure if french law allows one to do this if one has kids (as it is outlawed to disinherit). not sure about this...

in any case, i'm considering this option as a way to disengage entirely from the responsibilities that come with owning property yet have something to come back to eventually, if need be (if need not be, i could sell it once it's mine).

in any case, it seems to me that that this kind of delayed-purchase-option would suit many cruisers.
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Old 25-03-2019, 14:39   #26
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The hate of realty

In my opinion, except in a few special cases where real estate is still booming there isn’t much if any money to be made in real estate like there used to be.
Where I am from, the taxes continue to increase, and the value of the houses are declining.

The risk of one renter doing catastrophic damage is too great also.

It’s not for an absentee owner, I know I did it and lost tens of thousands of dollars, been much better off if I had just left the house vacant.

The McMansions already nation wide are severely depressed, and there is still money available at very low interest rates, the moment the interest rates rise, that will kill the housing market, and the prices will correct as they should, they are artificially inflated now, it won’t last.
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Old 25-03-2019, 16:44   #27
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Re: The hate of realty

Very interesting replies guys, sorry got distracted by repairs on the boat today and insurance stuff haha.

But thanks for the opinions, it does shed quite a bit of light on this subject. Not to mention the other 8 pages I missed Haha

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Old 25-03-2019, 17:22   #28
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Re: The hate of realty

I don’t hate restate. I own some and rent it out below market to well trusted people and still make a reasonable 6% ROI
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Old 25-03-2019, 18:04   #29
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Re: The hate of realty

unless it is a rental it is just a boat "built so poorly and run aground so badly that it will not go to sea."
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Old 26-03-2019, 05:42   #30
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Re: The hate of realty

Yes the newer the house the shoddier the quality
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