Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-04-2019, 04:40   #271
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 4,019
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
The last sentence of the Media Release from the ARC Centre on the above paper is a perfect illustration of their agenda:


"There’s only one way to fix this problem,” says Hughes, “and that’s to tackle the root cause of global heating by reducing net greenhouse gas emissions to zero as quickly as possible.”

If it's put out by JCU or ARC it seems to be little more than junk alarmist science. Even this thread has many examples of research running contrary to the claims in this report.
__________________

Reefmagnet is online now  
Old 04-04-2019, 04:46   #272
Registered User
 
SailOar's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 620
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Ah, yes. Another dire paper from Terry Hughes at JCU - the main target of Peter Ridd's criticisms of shoddy research.

Interestingly, in the recent trial, towards the end of Day 2 Judge Vasta specifically requested that Mr Murdoch QC explain to the court what quality assurance procedures were in place at ARC etc with regard to research. The request was totally ignored.
You seem very stuck on specific researchers whom you apparently don't like, but you are conveniently ignoring that many other researchers are coming up with similar conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine comes to an even more dire conclusion -- suggesting annual bleaching by 2050 rather than the Climate Council's biennial bleaching by 2030. Are you equally skeptical of the NAS's scientific chops?
__________________

__________________
The greatest deception men suffer is their own opinions.
- Leonardo da Vinci -
SailOar is offline  
Old 04-04-2019, 15:29   #273
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,804
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
You seem very stuck on specific researchers whom you apparently don't like, but you are conveniently ignoring that many other researchers are coming up with similar conclusions.
Based on your links, I assume you mean the National Academy of Sciences in Wash., DC, the same institution that has drawn criticism from scientific scholars for its suppression of scientific dissent. Here's a few nuggets from one example as it relates to climate change, with the criticism directed at the new president of the Academy as of 2016, namely Dr. Marcia K. McNutt (previous Editor-in-Chief of the journal Science):

"Science [the journal] promotes the so-called consensus model of climate change and excludes any contrary views. This issue has become so polarized and polarizing that it is difficult to bring up, but at some point the scientific community will have to reckon with the dramatic discrepancies between current climate models and substantial parts of the empirical record." (goes on to cite specific examples of bias)

* * *

". . . the attempt to declare that the 'pause' in global warming was an illusion has not been accepted by several respected and well-informed scientists. One would not know this, however, from reading Science, which has declined to publish any dissenting views. One can be a strong supporter of the consensus model and yet be disturbed by the role which Science has played in this controversy. Dr. McNutt and the journal have acted more like partisan activists than like responsible stewards of scientific standards confronted with contentious claims and ambiguous evidence."

Sound familiar? For all I know Dr. McNutt's professional credentials are unimpeachable. But that doesn't mean she's not immune from the all too human desire for self-advancement and the personal bias that often results:

"Dr. McNutt has in her career found herself faced more than once with the challenge of what to do when an entrenched orthodoxy meets a substantial scientific challenge. The challenge in each case could itself prove to be mistaken, but it met what most scientists would concede to be the threshold criteria to deserve a serious hearing. Yet in each case Dr. McNutt chose to reinforce the orthodoxy by shutting the door on the challenge."

https://www.nas.org/articles/nas_letter (different 'NAS') (emphasis mine)

Btw, while the National Academy purports to be a private, objective scientific organization independent of the US govt, 85% of its funding comes from the US Congress. No politics here to see . . . .

But those of naive, unquestioning faith can take solace. As Dr. McNutt herself highlghts:

"If you have visited either of our buildings in Washington, D.C., you may have seen this quote by Albert Einstein on display: [B]'The right to search for truth implies also a duty; one must not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be true.'

Those words serve as a daily reminder of our essential mission at the National Academies: to be the truthful voice for science, engineering, and medicine – the trusted source for independent, objective advice based on evidence. The truths that science provides are more important than ever to spark progress and ensure prosperity, security, and well-being for our nation and the world."


A Message from the Presidents of the NAS, NAE, and NAM: Looking Ahead in 2019 (emphasis mine).

We hear an awful lot on these threads about "objectivity" and "evidence." Unfortunately, however, much of CC science has now become -- mostly thanks to short-sighted partisanship -- only a "trusted voice for objective scientific truth" until/unless it interferes with outside political agendas. Isn't this exactly what the much-maligned Dr. Ridd has been fighting back against?
Exile is online now  
Old 04-04-2019, 18:44   #274
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 5,580
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
I always marvel that only “unprecedented catastrophic damage” is due mainly to AGW. But when something unprecedentedly good happens it almost never can be attributed to AGW.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/04/...ent-of-normal/

This report is from a state and a newspaper pretty famous for running every AGW angle they can find. But in this feel-good story is nary a mention of AGW.

Look again:


Quote:
However, Tjernell offered a reminder that California is just four years removed from the driest April 1 snowpack on record, just 5 percent of the historic average in 2015.
These highs and lows are anticipated to be even more extreme as climate change increasingly affects our communities,” Tjernell said.
Lake-Effect is online now  
Old 04-04-2019, 22:48   #275
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,804
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Look again:
I did, thanks, including the parts you quoted & bolded.

Quote:
However, Tjernell offered a reminder that California is just four years removed from the driest April 1 snowpack on record, just 5 percent of the historic average in 2015.
“These highs and lows are anticipated to be even more extreme as climate change increasingly affects our communities,” Tjernell said.


But then I still found it hard to reconcile the "more extreme highs & lows" as the effects of CC are felt with the article's comment that "[t]he largest snowpack over the last nearly 40 years was 1983 at 227 percent."

So close to 40 years ago the snowfall was almost 70% higher than it was in 2017 or 2018. But that somehow doesn't count when the lowest snowfall was in 2015. Lemme guess, the 2015 drought, along with the large snowpacks the past two winters, are blamed on AGW. But the record 1983 snowfall was due to . . . errr . . . the weather??

It's a good thing we have news sources like this telling us what we're all supposed to think or some of us might actually be inclined to question their bias.
Exile is online now  
Old 05-04-2019, 01:10   #276
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 6,308
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Look again:
I said they did not mention AGW. CC is a meaningless catch-all.
transmitterdan is offline  
Old 05-04-2019, 04:36   #277
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 5,580
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
I said they did not mention AGW. CC is a meaningless catch-all.
oh ffs...

But you get points for efficiency. Exile you could similarly have saved yourself two or three paragraphs of tortured rationalization.
Lake-Effect is online now  
Old 05-04-2019, 06:51   #278
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,804
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Exile you could similarly have saved yourself two or three paragraphs of tortured rationalization.
Especially if I had first stumbled upon this NOAA graph showing less than 1ºC of warming above the average over the past 100 years, followed by the rationalization that we should ignore that one and base our fears instead on the rate of warming since 1975.

https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...al-temperature

Except that the part about reduced snow cover & sea ice doesn't seem to fit. And I'm pretty sure every warming trend throughout Earth's history has resulted in "a significant increase in accumulated heat."

"Behind the seemingly small increase in global average surface temperature over the past century is a significant increase in accumulated heat. That extra heat is driving regional and seasonal temperature extremes, reducing snow cover and sea ice, intensifying heavy rainfall, and changing habitat ranges for plants and animals—expanding some and shrinking others."

I guess that's why so many of us have been so successfully programmed to ignore the distinction between the catch-all label "CC" and the harder to prove "AGW." Now any weather event that is deemed anomalous is automatically attributed to CC, and that in turn has become synonymous with AGW. Presto! And then, of course, any sort of critique or mere questioning is deemed "denial." Labels are such a grand way of getting closer to the truth!
Exile is online now  
Old 05-04-2019, 06:59   #279
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 38,198
Images: 241
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Especially if I had first stumbled upon this NOAA graph showing less than 1ºC of warming above the average over the past 100 years, followed by the rationalization that we should ignore that one and base our fears instead on the rate of warming since 1975.

https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...al-temperature ...
Quoting your link: "... Since 1901, the planet’s surface has warmed by 0.7–0.9° Celsius (1.3–1.6° Fahrenheit) per century, but the rate of warming has nearly doubled since 1975 to 1.5–1.8° Celsius (2.7–3.2° Fahrenheit) per century ..."
It appears they don't ignore the warming since 1901, so much as note the more recent acceleration in warming - an alarming trend.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:13   #280
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 38,198
Images: 241
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
... I guess that's why so many of us have been so successfully programmed to ignore the distinction between the catch-all label "CC" and the harder to prove "AGW." ...
“Climate change” and “global warming” are often used interchangeably, but have different and distinct meanings.
Global warming is merely one symptom of the much larger problem of human-caused climate change.

Global warming refers to the long-term warming of the planet since the early 20th century, and most notably since the late 1970s, due to the increase in fossil fuel emissions since the Industrial Revolution.

Climate change refers to a broad range of global phenomena created predominantly by burning fossil fuels, which add heat-trapping gases to Earth’s atmosphere. These phenomena include the increased temperature trends described by global warming; but also encompass changes such as sea level rise; ocean acidification, ice mass loss in Greenland, Antarctica, the Arctic and mountain glaciers worldwide; shifts in flower/plant blooming; and extreme weather events.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:35   #281
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,804
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Quoting your link: "... Since 1901, the planet’s surface has warmed by 0.7–0.9° Celsius (1.3–1.6° Fahrenheit) per century, but the rate of warming has nearly doubled since 1975 to 1.5–1.8° Celsius (2.7–3.2° Fahrenheit) per century ..."
It appears they don't ignore the warming since 1901, so much as note the more recent acceleration in warming - an alarming trend.
Yes, that's my interpretation as well and I think that's what I wrote. The accelerated rate of warming since 1975 can only appropriately be described as "alarming," however, if it's a significant anomaly from previous such accelerated rates in the planet's history. In other words, "alarming" compared to what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
“Climate change” and “global warming” are often used interchangeably, but have different and distinct meanings.
Global warming is merely one symptom of the much larger problem of human-caused climate change.

Global warming refers to the long-term warming of the planet since the early 20th century, and most notably since the late 1970s, due to the increase in fossil fuel emissions since the Industrial Revolution.

Climate change refers to a broad range of global phenomena created predominantly by burning fossil fuels, which add heat-trapping gases to Earth’s atmosphere. These phenomena include the increased temperature trends described by global warming; but also encompass changes such as sea level rise; ocean acidification, ice mass loss in Greenland, Antarctica, the Arctic and mountain glaciers worldwide; shifts in flower/plant blooming; and extreme weather events.
I understand the formal, textbook distinction. It's how the distinction is routinely glossed over by media outlets that is misleading. That's the point of this current part of the discussion.
Exile is online now  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:48   #282
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 6,308
The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
“Climate change” and “global warming” are often used interchangeably, but have different and distinct meanings.
Global warming is merely one symptom of the much larger problem of human-caused climate change.

Global warming refers to the long-term warming of the planet since the early 20th century, and most notably since the late 1970s, due to the increase in fossil fuel emissions since the Industrial Revolution.

Climate change refers to a broad range of global phenomena created predominantly by burning fossil fuels, which add heat-trapping gases to Earth’s atmosphere. These phenomena include the increased temperature trends described by global warming; but also encompass changes such as sea level rise; ocean acidification, ice mass loss in Greenland, Antarctica, the Arctic and mountain glaciers worldwide; shifts in flower/plant blooming; and extreme weather events.

And apparently, abundant water supplies in previously drought stricken California.
transmitterdan is offline  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:30   #283
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 5,580
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
[some more deft footwork to the sound of a jangly upright piano, playing from stage right]

"Averages" don't tell the whole story. Example.
Lake-Effect is online now  
Old 05-04-2019, 10:54   #284
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 6,308
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
"Averages" don't tell the whole story. Example.
You would be more accurate to say averages tell almost no story. At least no story that can be validated.
transmitterdan is offline  
Old 05-04-2019, 12:22   #285
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,804
Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
You would be more accurate to say averages tell almost no story. At least no story that can be validated.
But whether they can be validated or not, averages can always be manipulated into telling an “alarmist” story.
__________________

Exile is online now  
Closed Thread

Tags
coral, Great Barrier Reef

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Wanted: Whitsunday Islands along Great Barrier Reef then to Coral Sea Nations micky Crew Archives 1 22-02-2014 20:04
Crew Wanted: Coral Sea and Great Barrier Reef micky Crew Archives 0 02-03-2013 22:28
The Great Barrier Reef - Australia SurferShane Pacific & South China Sea 17 25-11-2009 19:51
Coral Spawn and Water Visibility - Great Barrier Reef SurferShane Pacific & South China Sea 1 24-11-2009 08:34
Wanted - Great Barrier Reef and Pacific Islands Cruise graeme_caesar Crew Archives 0 21-09-2004 04:08

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.