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Old 20-03-2019, 14:52   #196
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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Old 20-03-2019, 19:18   #197
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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We both should thank Lake-Effect for reminding us what the definition of sludge is. Since the first definition is --
1 : mud, mire especially : a muddy deposit (as on a riverbed) : ooze
-- I think we should give both The Guardian and Senator Waters the benefit of the doubt and assume they used the word correctly.
We certainly could, but that would be inconsistent with the use of the word in the article's title, sub-title, and caption, all of which appears front & center with the photograph of the coal depot. Curiously, a more accurate term to describe the sediment from the dredging is used in the text of the article itself. Which one do you think gets read by the largest number of people?

We could also thank L-E for providing one definition of the word, except that the definition that immediately popped up on my Apple computer's dictionary app said something quite a bit different:

sludge | sləj |

noun

thick, soft, wet mud or a similar viscous mixture of liquid and solid components, especially the product of an industrial or refining process.
• dirty oil, especially in the sump of an internal combustion engine.
• sea ice newly formed in small pieces.
(emphasis mine)

I think you forgot that the term "sludge" appears 3x at the very beginning of the article along with the photo, so I'm pretty certain The Guardian knew exactly what sort of image they were creating when they combined use of the word with the photo. Less as a mere synonym for "sediment" as L-E's definition suggests, and more like this:

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Coal_sludge
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Old 21-03-2019, 00:06   #198
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Little bit off topic, but brought a smile back to my face.....



And in the interest of “balance”....

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Old 21-03-2019, 04:24   #199
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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We certainly could, but that would be inconsistent with the use of the word in the article's title, sub-title, and caption, all of which appears front & center with the photograph of the coal depot.
A definition of sludge as river bottom ooze is totally consistent with the whole article. The title specified "Dredging Sludge". The photo caption says "Sludge from maintenance dredging".
Quote:
Curiously, a more accurate term to describe the sediment from the dredging is used in the text of the article itself. Which one do you think gets read by the largest number of people?
You are making it abundantly clear how far you read.
Quote:
We could also thank L-E for providing one definition of the word,
L-E provided multiple meanings of the word, including the incorrect meaning (given the article's context) that you have seized upon.
Quote:
except that the definition that immediately popped up on my Apple computer's dictionary app said something quite a bit different:

sludge | sləj |

noun

thick, soft, wet mud or a similar viscous mixture of liquid and solid components, especially the product of an industrial or refining process.
• dirty oil, especially in the sump of an internal combustion engine.
• sea ice newly formed in small pieces.
(emphasis mine)

I think you forgot that the term "sludge" appears 3x at the very beginning of the article along with the photo, so I'm pretty certain The Guardian knew exactly what sort of image they were creating when they combined use of the word with the photo. Less as a mere synonym for "sediment" as L-E's definition suggests, and more like this:

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Coal_sludge
Since The Guardian is a British publication don't you think it would make sense to find out how Brits use the term sludge, rather than just relying on your own personal understanding of the use of the word sludge?

From the Collins dictionary:
sludge in American
(slʌdʒ )
noun
1. mud, mire, or ooze covering the ground or forming a deposit at the bottom of bodies of water
2. spongy lumps of drift ice
3. any heavy, slimy deposit, sediment, or mass, as the waste resulting from oil refining, the mud brought up by a mining drill, the precipitate in a sewage tank, the sediment in a steam boiler or crankcase, etc.

Word origin of 'sludge'
var. of slutch, sludge, mud: akin to ME sluchched, muddy, prob. ult. < IE base *(s)leu-, to hang limply > sleet, MHG slote, mud, ooze


sludge in British
(slʌdʒ )
noun
1. soft mud, snow, etc
2. any deposit or sediment
3. a surface layer of ice that has a slushy appearance
4. (in sewage disposal) the solid constituents of sewage that precipitate during treatment and are removed for subsequent purification
So we see that both in American English and British English the use of the word sludge refers to a muddy deposit or sediment BEFORE it means an industrial or sewage deposit. Again, totally consistent with the topic of the article.

But I am now understanding more clearly how a malleable language, like English, enables a person who has inclinations to be an AGW denier to find all sorts of loopholes to wiggle and squirm their way into defending whatever point of view they wish to uphold.
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Old 21-03-2019, 04:55   #200
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

But I am now understanding more clearly how a malleable language, like English, enables a person who has inclinations to be an AGW denier to find all sorts of loopholes to wiggle and squirm their way into defending whatever point of view they wish to uphold.

Your post looks like a strenuous effort to justify the usage of the term "sludge" to describe what are primarily fine water born sediments in order to create in the readers mind the perception that the sediments are composed of industrial waste, biological excreta and other filthy nasties. Your viewpoint is readily exposed by your use of the term "AGW denier".
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Old 21-03-2019, 10:05   #201
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
But I am now understanding more clearly how a malleable language, like English, enables a person who has inclinations to be an AGW denier to find all sorts of loopholes to wiggle and squirm their way into defending whatever point of view they wish to uphold.
Once again, you "forgot" to address the reason for inclusion of the aerial photo of the coal depot along with your attempts to define & redefine "sludge". If the intent of The Guardian was fair, truthful reporting, there are countless images that could have accurately represented the need to keep a busy industrial port properly dredged for shipping, and the dilemma posed by how to properly dispose of dredge material given the proximity of the GBR. This is the type of dilemma that almost everyone with any level of objectivity can understand & appreciate, with all sides -- from the Port Authority to the Greens -- very much worth listening to.

Instead, and consistent with your now all too familiar pattern, you choose a source which uses alarmism & distortion to falsely suggest to the reader that coal deposits will be included in the sludge/dredge spoils/sediment that will be dumped on the GBR. All this serves to do is undermine the credibility of what is an otherwise valid & important environmental issue, with the only readers susceptible to actually believing the article being (already) frightened schoolchildren and those who live in their own hyper-partisan bubble. It's the exact same credibility problem which afflicts the overall CC debate.

But yet you guys are always quick to blame "others" for your own lack of credibility, whether it be conservatives, Trump, Heartland, or scientists & laymen with valid skepticism who you have been taught to unthinkingly label as "deniers."
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Old 21-03-2019, 10:17   #202
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Once again, you "forgot" to address the reason for inclusion of the aerial photo of the coal depot along with your attempts to define & redefine "sludge". If the intent of The Guardian was fair, truthful reporting, there are countless images that could have accurately represented the need to keep a busy industrial port properly dredged for shipping, and the dilemma posed by how to properly dispose of dredge material given the proximity of the GBR...
You thought that a picture of the subject coal terminal was inappropriate for a story about dredging for a coal terminal. I offered a picture of dredging, which you also thought inappropriate.

Could it be that the truth of the matter is what you find offensive, rather than an editorialised choice of pictures and words?


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Old 21-03-2019, 10:32   #203
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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You thought that a picture of the subject coal terminal was inappropriate for a story about dredging for a coal terminal. I offered a picture of dredging, which you also thought inappropriate.

Could it be that the truth of the matter is what you find offensive, rather than an editorialised choice of pictures and words?


I found none of it offensive, only misleading. Which it was. Apparently they're not dredging in the waters proximate to the actual coal depot. Wouldn't surprise me if that area had been contaminated with coal deposits over the years, and the article mentioned heavy metal deposits in some areas which also makes sense. But it doesn't sound like this is part of the naturally occurring dredge spoils at issue in this case, although I agree with L-E that they are not likely to be completely benign.

So why not just play it straight? Not just here, but with environmental issues generally? The distortions are hardly limited to one side, so maybe there's room for some common ground?
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Old 21-03-2019, 10:45   #204
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

More Female Sea Turtles Born as Temperatures Rise
Quote:
Male sea turtles are disappearing from Australia’s Great Barrier Reef.

A new study of gender ratios found that 99 percent of immature green turtles born in the northern part of the reef are female. Among adult turtles, 87 percent are female, suggesting that there has been a shift in gender ratios over the last few decades.

A sea turtle’s sex is determined by its nesting environment. As sands warm, more females will hatch relative to males; if the sand temperature tops 84.7 degrees during incubation, only females will emerge....

The gender shift has been noticed before by people who study hatchlings, said Jeanette Wyneken, a sea turtle expert and professor at Florida Atlantic University, who was not involved in the new research.

But it wasn’t clear until this study that the shift was so dramatic and happening in such a large population across time, she said.

“This is the first paper that’s shown this multigenerational effect,” influencing the gender of juveniles, older adolescents and adults, Dr. Wyneken said.....
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Old 21-03-2019, 11:25   #205
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

Even “Dredging Today” pictures a dredge in their article (favourable to the project).
https://www.dredgingtoday.com/2019/0...-plan-gets-ok/




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Old 21-03-2019, 11:55   #206
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Even “Dredging Today” pictures a dredge in their article (favourable to the project).
https://www.dredgingtoday.com/2019/0...-plan-gets-ok/




Only makes one wonder all the more why The Guardian couldn't or wouldn't do the same. But then we do know why, don't we?

Meanwhile, the political gamesmanship has shrouded a more basic question, namely why the Port Authority is unable to require the spoils to be dumped in deeper waters beyond the reef. I'm sure it comes down to cost, perhaps in this case the potentially prohibitive transport costs given the vast expanse of the reefs. Dunno, but maybe it's more akin to the monetary & environmental costs of transporting dredge spoils overland to fill an open mining pit.
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Old 21-03-2019, 13:57   #207
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
Quote:
Male sea turtles are disappearing from Australia’s Great Barrier Reef.

A new study of gender ratios found that 99 percent of immature green turtles born in the northern part of the reef are female. Among adult turtles, 87 percent are female, suggesting that there has been a shift in gender ratios over the last few decades.

A sea turtle’s sex is determined by its nesting environment. As sands warm, more females will hatch relative to males; if the sand temperature tops 84.7 degrees during incubation, only females will emerge....

The gender shift has been noticed before by people who study hatchlings, said Jeanette Wyneken, a sea turtle expert and professor at Florida Atlantic University, who was not involved in the new research.

But it wasn’t clear until this study that the shift was so dramatic and happening in such a large population across time, she said.

“This is the first paper that’s shown this multigenerational effect,” influencing the gender of juveniles, older adolescents and adults, Dr. Wyneken said.....
More Female Sea Turtles Born as Temperatures Rise
Back to the OP.....

I’m really interested in people’s views on weathers it’s acceptable to intervene here? Translocation of turtle eggs into a temperature controlled environment is well within our capabilities.

Or should we allow these species to potentially become extinct?
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Old 21-03-2019, 14:07   #208
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pirate Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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Originally Posted by Puddleduck View Post
Back to the OP.....

I’m really interested in people’s views on weathers it’s acceptable to intervene here? Translocation of turtle eggs into a temperature controlled environment is well within our capabilities.

Or should we allow these species to potentially become extinct?
I'm coming back as a male turtle..
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Old 21-03-2019, 14:16   #209
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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Originally Posted by Puddleduck View Post
Back to the OP.....

I’m really interested in people’s views on weathers it’s acceptable to intervene here? Translocation of turtle eggs into a temperature controlled environment is well within our capabilities.

Or should we allow these species to potentially become extinct?

Yes we should definitely intervene. Because after 220 million years on the planet, turtles are obviously teetering on the precipice of extinction thanks to female to male ratios possibly exceeded only by the human intervention related chicken and dairy cow.
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Old 21-03-2019, 14:19   #210
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Re: The Great Barrier Reef- resistant coral

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I'm coming back as a male turtle..

Make sure your egg is laid in more southern latitudes or you may end up transgender.
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