The Cult Of Likabilty

[s/v Beth]

In Utah they just pronounce it in-drum. Now don't get all excited, their just being individuals.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

In Utah they just pronounce it in-drum. Now don't get all excited, their just being individuals.

My family is from Utah. I grew up thinking that unique rural Utah accent was the sound of love. Sadly it's a dying accent.

A few years ago I went back to Utah for a family reunion. My brother wanted to visit the Hare Kristna temple in Springville. The head monk had a deep rural Utah accent! Truly an individual! Unique! In appearance, in his robes, shaved head and sun tan, he looked like any Asian monk. But that accent!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Because Cuisers Forum is a form of social media where nonconformists are routinely and heavily discouraged, despite the fact that cruisers are by their nature a fringe group that chooses to live outside the norms of conventional society, I thought it might be of interest to some.

So Delancey. Interesting article & a fun thread at times, but I assume you had specific examples in mind when you stated that CF "routinely and heavily" discourages nonconformists. I haven't been as active here and for as long as some, but I notice hardly a thread goes by without differing opinions being asserted, often rigorously (mildly put). That suggests a healthy degree of nonconformity to me, but maybe as you suggest it's just unconventional sailors with strong-willed personalities, some living more on the fringe. But maybe this observation is different than what you had in mind?

I can also think of some potential examples of group-think around here, but am a bit hard-pressed to see those outside any such group being "routinely and heavily" discouraged. But maybe I only see what I wanna see. Wouldn't be the first time.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

My family is from Utah. I grew up thinking that unique rural Utah accent was the sound of love. Sadly it's a dying accent.

A few years ago I went back to Utah for a family reunion. My brother wanted to visit the Hare Kristna temple in Springville. The head monk had a deep rural Utah accent! Truly an individual! Unique! In appearance, in his robes, shaved head and sun tan, he looked like any Asian monk. But that accent!

Reminds me of quite a few years ago when I was in Scotland for the first time in 20 odd years. I was served in a shop by an Indian lady wearing a sari and choli with the traditional bindi on her forehead. She had one of the broadest Glaswegian accents I have ever heard. (my father was Glaswegian)

[Mike OReilly]

I sometimes get my head taken off by CF conformists when I dare to suggest that things don't have to be a certain way. But in general I don't feel CF is an especially hostile social media space (yes, this is definitely a social media tool). No better, and no worse than most communities.

Interestingly, I do find SN to be a slightly less abrasive forum, but outside of some odd American-political lensed discussions here, I only rarely encounter a thread I would call heavily discouraging to us nonconformists .

[Delancey]

Anybody like to carry a gun onboard? Anybody prefer the stability and comfort of a multihull? Anybody like your Hunter? Anybody have no interest in spending your hard earned cash on radar or AIS? Anybody feel ashamed because they don't have a blue water boat even though they only sail coastal waters? Anybody prefer to drive your boat with a tiller instead of a godawful wheel? Anybody have a freestanding mast? Anybody have a catamaran with two freestanding masts with one mounted on each hull? Anybody remember this guy in the photo below with his neon pink shirt? scoobert?

I never said I believed CF was especially hostile, although it certainly can be, but I do believe CF routinely and heavily discourages nonconformists, sometimes overtly, sometimes more insidiously. I believe if people don't see it it's because they're not looking.

I miss scoobert. He had some wack ideas but he certainly added some color to the room. There's a reason why he left and it wasn't because he found CF to be a welcoming place for his brand of nonconformity.

How many others like him have been chased away? Probably more than you would ever know.

[Sea Dreaming]

I do believe CF routinely and heavily discourages nonconformists, sometimes overtly, sometimes more insidiously

I'm not sure I can explain my thought very well but I am going to try.

The thing is, when others bash on your ideas a bit, it feels bad. It feels bad because you are not "fitting in". Therefore, the conformist in the room is yourself!

I'm not picking on anyone here. The above line applies to myself quite a bit! It's very much the human nature to want validation. Support from others is very validating. But the true genius of non-conformity is to be quite comfortable with being uncomfortable. It's realizing that others can only validate what they know. If they don't known it, they can't validate it. But that only reflects on them. Not you.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Canibul

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Evelyn Beatrice Hall

They just don't make women like that any more.

I was enjoying a very large Scotch with the Brigadier one night, and the "Greenham Common Wimmins Slum In" came on the news, and the Brig started sounding off about "If they only realised . . . " and "If they only knew the sacrifices that have been made . . " and several other "Blah, blah, blah's".

So I said "Well Brig, aren't we here so that they can continue to be able to do these type of protests?"

Brig thought for a moment, and said "You are absolutely correct my boy, let me fill your glass".

We hadn't got on badly before, but we got on like a house on fire after.

R.I.P Brig, we all miss you.

Myself, I will try and point out the obvious, even well beyond the point of personal disadvantage - even pointing out the reality that we are presently undergoing rapid cooling, which is instantly confirmed by the atmospheric contraction that is allowing the Hubble Space Telescope to stay in orbit way beyond what was anticipated, and which doesn't go down well in certain seriously deranged and extremist quarters - but I could care less.

I do have the advantage of knowing and liking people from all walks of life, and as a barman, would talk to any and everybody, on pretty much any subject they cared to talk about. In my experience the vast majority think the same about the vast majority of subjects.

These seem to be radically different views on "Life, the Universe, and Everything"[tm], than are held by the tiny minority, that like to pretend that they are the majority.

The tiny minority makes far and away the most noise (as empty barrels always do), and people do get a false impression of what other people really think.

Oddball, and prone to holding opinions that do not reflect those being trotted out by the media, that I admittedly am, this did not prevent my treasured regulars (from the complete political spectrum) getting together, when the pub was put on the market, in an attempt to buy the pub, so they could keep me there as their barman (this is the greatest and most humbling honour I have ever received in my life).

So don't be afraid to be who you are. You will probably learn that you are a very nice person, once you wade through all the indoctrinated cr4p, and get at the diamond within, and if people can't handle that, that's their problem, not yours.

Once you like yourself, the World is a completely different place.

[zeehag]

i prefer honesty to likeability... lol is a big difference. and btw--cannot find the green things anymore--they used to be on the avatar section, but wher they go??
see how much i dotn care--i dotn even know where to look for this ****

[goat]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Anybody like to carry a gun onboard? Anybody prefer the stability and comfort of a multihull? Anybody like your Hunter? Anybody have no interest in spending your hard earned cash on radar or AIS? Anybody feel ashamed because they don't have a blue water boat even though they only sail coastal waters? Anybody prefer to drive your boat with a tiller instead of a godawful wheel? Anybody have a freestanding mast? Anybody have a catamaran with two freestanding masts with one mounted on each hull? Anybody remember this guy in the photo below with his neon pink shirt? scoobert?

I never said I believed CF was especially hostile, although it certainly can be, but I do believe CF routinely and heavily discourages nonconformists, sometimes overtly, sometimes more insidiously. I believe if people don't see it it's because they're not looking.

I miss scoobert. He had some wack ideas but he certainly added some color to the room. There's a reason why he left and it wasn't because he found CF to be a welcoming place for his brand of nonconformity.

How many others like him have been chased away? Probably more than you would ever know.

You don't need to miss Scoobert, he's alive and well over at SN;

SailNet Community - View Profile: UnionPacific

As for me, I had a meeting at my new group; Nuke the Unborn Gay Whales, and was surprised that only haters showed up. No telling with people nowadays.

goat

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

I'm not sure I can explain my thought very well but I am going to try.

The thing is, when others bash on your ideas a bit, it feels bad. It feels bad because you are not "fitting in". Therefore, the conformist in the room is yourself!

I'm not picking on anyone here. The above line applies to myself quite a bit! It's very much the human nature to want validation. Support from others is very validating. But the true genius of non-conformity is to be quite comfortable with being uncomfortable. It's realizing that others can only validate what they know. If they don't known it, they can't validate it. But that only reflects on them. Not you.

Regretfully, the easiest way to action is through empathy or emotion. The greater the emotion, the more successful the message comes across.

In order to use a negative to build empathy it is far easier to attack the messenger than it is the message even though the other side may actually agree with all or part of the message - it does not fit within the group mentality. The World is Flat and if you do not agree with us, you are a complete and total idiot.

That is the downfall of any great society as it is easier to discredit the opposing side as a whole, then the individual ideas that foster new ideas and solutions while identifying and mitigating future problems. It is easy for all of us to fall into the trap of not listening outside of our comfort zone and the protection of our group.

Eventually, you can't even have opposing views even from within the group as you may become ostracized, banished, or even be-headed as you are branded an outsider.

A group such as CF has a single commonality to form the group. We all love boats and are or are interested in the cruising lifestyle. Other than that, we should have different views and learn from each other and cherish the fact that we have a forum that allows us to do just that.

[SV THIRD DAY]

It's not easy being the contrarian...but as my mamma always said,

"why do you always have a argue so much".


You also have to remember that most of the advice giving...well isn't, and you guys all know what I'm talking about and we have all seen it 100 times.

A thread entitled:
"Need advice picking the best XYZ"

The poster lists his wants, needs, and limitations and specifically ask for help with HIS situation. Then two things can quickly happen.
1. The premise of the original posters questions that he even need XYZ is questioned because he may not have the experience to know his premise flawed or there is another way to look at his "question"
Or
2. Rather than answering what is best for HIS situation, the posters drift into what worked best for THEM in their situation.

Both of these can easily lead to the original poster feeling put off, discouraged, etc.

I'm responding for example using No 1 from above....so where does that put me?

Like My Daddy always says,
"No one likes a Truth Teller Son...sometimes all telling the truth will do to someone is make them pissed off at you because they do not want to hear it."

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

It's not easy being the contrarian...but as my mamma always said,

"why do you always have a argue so much".


You also have to remember that most of the advice giving...well isn't, and you guys all know what I'm talking about and we have all seen it 100 times.

A thread entitled:
"Need advice picking the best XYZ"

The poster lists his wants, needs, and limitations and specifically ask for help with HIS situation. Then two things can quickly happen.
1. The premise of the original posters questions that he even need XYZ is questioned because he may not have the experience to know his premise flawed or there is another way to look at his "question"
Or
2. Rather than answering what is best for HIS situation, the posters drift into what worked best for THEM in their situation.

Both of these can easily lead to the original poster feeling put off, discouraged, etc.

I'm responding for example using No 1 from above....so where does that put me?

Like My Daddy always says,
"No one likes a Truth Teller Son...sometimes all telling the truth will do to someone is make them pissed off at you because they do not want to hear it."

What is wrong with #1 or #2.

Example. Q. Where should I drill a hole in my boat for a new transducer?


At least one smartass will answer... In the bottom. We get a chuckle.

Some may give answers based upon the type of transducer or ask what type, logically.

The #2 guy may ask why drill another hole in your boat? We used a "look through" and it works great.

Another #2 guy states. I don't believe in electronics. Sextants and lead lines for me. All I need is a tasty buzz and a star to steer by dude.

It gets frustrating when you have to keep asking the question, but to truly learn, what is wrong with it?

[SV THIRD DAY]

AH....but that's just it.
It takes a little experience to realize that and lots of folks just want to be told what they already wanted to hear.

Then when given a little education, they take it the wrong way.

We see it all the time.

Me...I WANT people to say..Rich, your questions is wrong...what about ABC, OR ZYX. But many people that that the wrong way and come away from with a bitter taste. Just saying what I see, of course this from a Bling man that once asked what the difference was between Running and Standing Rigging and was told he was crazy and would never last living aboard back in the States.....

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Yesterday the New York Times published an article by critically acclaimed author Bret Easton Ellis that examines how groupthink in social media and the "Cult of Likability" marginalizes individuality and nonconformist thinking to the detriment of the diversity of our culture for the benefit of corporations.

Because Cuisers Forum is a form of social media where nonconformists are routinely and heavily discouraged, despite the fact that cruisers are by their nature a fringe group that chooses to live outside the norms of conventional society, I thought it might be of interest to some.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/08...ikability.html

Sweden has marginalising individuality and nonconformist thinking since well before there was such a thing as social media, internet or computers. It's probably why Swedes have adapted to social media so quickly, they feel right at home.