Terminology -- "Stateroom"

[mstrebe]

Based on size, I think "water closet" might be the best term for my boat. We refer to the separate shower as the "wet locker" since that's the function it actually fulfills.

And, again in the Navy, the terms for toilets were "shitter" or "pisser" depending on function. Never once heard them called anything else, ashore or aboard. Not allowed to use those terms on the boat with kids aboard.

[mstrebe]

What about the terms "Ship", "Boat", and "Yacht"?

In the Navy, a "Ship" has a "Boat", but a "Boat" has no smaller vessel; Even large subs are called boats because they carry no smaller vessels.

And a "Yacht" was any vessel you couldn't afford.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

In the Navy .......... a "Yacht" was any vessel you couldn't afford.

Must have been the US Navy .

In Australia the term applies to just about any monohull sail boat with a cabin. Even pint sized boats are terms yachts. I have learned to be careful with using that term on CF .

SWL

[FamilyVan]

I occasionally refer to my cabins as staterooms, specifically when describing my boat to some one who hasn't been aboard, I haven't always done this- it came after boat shopping, when I noticed, many people eager to sell would refer to their 30' boats having two cabins. I was so excited I would drive somewhere to investigate and be disappointed to learn they were calling a salon and v-birth as having 2 cabins. So I refer to my boat as having 2 staterooms, rather than 4 cabins (v-birth, aft cabin, salon and workshop). For me it's about trying to describe the boat in a way that's easily understood.

As far as head goes, in the CCG, you would be ridiculed for being unseamanlike if you referred to the bathroom as anything but a head, including by me. If you were a nurse, helicopter pilot or scientist, you would just receive a knowing smile.

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[FamilyVan]

Oh- and ropes. Rope is fine for ropes, meaning a piece of cordage without a designated purpose, but those with a designated purpose, halyards, sheets, heaving lines etc are lines.

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[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Oh- and ropes. Rope is fine for ropes, meaning a piece of cordage without a designated purpose, but those with a designated purpose, halyards, sheets, heaving lines etc are lines.

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So if I buy a spool of nylon cordage and intend to use 1/2 of it for anchoring, and some of it for dock ties, is the rope, line, rode or cordage?

[FamilyVan]

You forgot to mention rhode! Although I was recently corrected on CF for using shots to describe a given amount of rhode using cordage, rather than chain. Not sure on that one.

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[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Oh- and ropes. Rope is fine for ropes, meaning a piece of cordage without a designated purpose, but those with a designated purpose, halyards, sheets, heaving lines etc are lines.

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This is a "rule" I believe makes a lot of sense and I always shared this with newbies who wanted to learn to sail.

As I see it, it is very important to call the lines on a boat by their proper names, primarily because if someone (a newbie) tries to follow a skipper's command to "release the (x)" but instead they release something else, it can cause a big disaster that could lead to damage, injury, or even death.

Also, as I see it, when telling a newbie to go "cut some rope 10 feet long" for a purpose, if they don't know to pick the cordage (rope that is not being used and is "to be used" after being cut to a needed length), they may mistakenly pick something VERY important such as a stowed sheet and make the cut on that by mistake.

When that happens, the cut "Sheet" becomes a "She."

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

So if I buy a spool of nylon cordage and intend to use 1/2 of it for anchoring, and some of it for dock ties, is the rope, line, rode or cordage?

As I see it, the rope is "cordage" until it is cut or used to perform a specific task.

If it is cut off the spool to a length to be used as a designated dock line, it becomes "a dock line."

[Steadman Uhlich]

When you use these terms matters too.

For example:

1. Don't tell the newbie that the "Pushpit" is where the lazy or unhelpful crew get tossed (pushed) off the boat, until after you leave the dock.

2. Beware of telling a newbie to go to the "Hanging Locker" until after you explain something about storing clothes on a boat.

[hellosailor]

Websters? Good lord, there are more variations of companies with that name than there are consonants in the alphabet.


No wonder your ancestors are throwing things around your house. They'd all have told you to use the Oxford English Dictionary, which often has insights on the origins of words. And is not targeted at grade school washouts, as most of the Websters are, but for a rather higher audience.


"I consulted the OED (Oxford English Dictionary), and the first recorded use of "stateroom" was in Pepys' diary in 1660. I gather that there were originally only one or sometimes two cabins that were called staterooms, those being for the superior officer and the like. Thus, the "state" part comes in meaning of stature, status. "
According to some dog on the internet.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Must have been the US Navy .

In Australia the term applies to just about any monohull sail boat with a cabin. Even pint sized boats are terms yachts. I have learned to be careful with using that term on CF .

SWL

I don't think anywhere except the US, does "yacht" have any connotations of grandeur.

In Europe, "yacht", and all the cognates in other European languages ("jacht", "яхта", "jahti", etc.) just means a sailboat with a habitable interior, even if it's only 18 feet long.

So if you ask for a berth on the radio, for example, you will often be asked "is that a motorboat, or a yacht"?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Oh- and ropes. Rope is fine for ropes, meaning a piece of cordage without a designated purpose, but those with a designated purpose, halyards, sheets, heaving lines etc are lines.

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Indeed.

And raw cordage is not "some line" -- it's rope, twine, cable, or small stuff. Here's where the errors start -- the land person has been told that that line is not a rope, it's that line, and now he thinks that that spool of 16mm double braid is a spool of "line", not a spool of rope. Or that that coil of rope hanging from the pushpit for miscellaneous uses is a "coil of line". One error leads to another, and soon two land people have convinced each other that "there are no ropes on a boat".

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Websters? Good lord, there are more variations of companies with that name than there are consonants in the alphabet.


No wonder your ancestors are throwing things around your house. They'd all have told you to use the Oxford English Dictionary, which often has insights on the origins of words. And is not targeted at grade school washouts, as most of the Websters are, but for a rather higher audience.


"I consulted the OED (Oxford English Dictionary), and the first recorded use of "stateroom" was in Pepys' diary in 1660. I gather that there were originally only one or sometimes two cabins that were called staterooms, those being for the superior officer and the like. Thus, the "state" part comes in meaning of stature, status. "
According to some dog on the internet.

The OED is an entirely different thing, than other sources called "dictionaries". We are lucky to have it. I am not aware of any real analogue in any other language. I have it on board in two volumes of microprint, one of the few paper books I keep on board.

But Webster's Second International, out of print since the '30's I guess, is something wonderful in its own way. It lacks the wealth of specific cites to literature of the OED, but it is excellent in its own way and is full of insight. It's too bulky to keep on board -- it's one huge volume weighing about 10 kilos I guess. I have two copies, having inherited one from my stepfather, who kept it on a stand in his study. Webster's Third, the mother or stepmother of all modern English language dictionaries, is where it all started to go wrong.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

So if I buy a spool of nylon cordage and intend to use 1/2 of it for anchoring, and some of it for dock ties, is the rope, line, rode or cordage?

Depends on how big it is.

Is it 2mm? Then it starts life as twine. Is it 240mm? Cable. 24mm? Then it's rope.

When you cut it, it's still rope.

When one part of it is at work holding your anchor, or coiled in your anchor locker waiting to be used for that and no other purposes -- it's an anchor rode or anchor line. But if you take out of the anchor locker and put it in the laz, thinking you might need it for a long shore line, or some other miscellaneous task, it's rope again.

When the other part has had an eye spliced in one end, and the other end nicely whipped , and when it is holding your boat to the dock, or it is lying in your lazarette waiting to be used for that and no other purpose, it's a dock line.

This would be standard UK usage -- in the US, where the fear of using the word "rope" incorrectly and appearing uncool has penetrated much deeper, a lot of sailors (not all) have trouble pronouncing the word "rope" and will grasp for any other word.