Stupid, Ridiculous Prices for Stuff

[colemj]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

you don't kill for sport

I guess I haven't been specific enough.

I kill for sport.

If given the opportunity to go to a deer farm and shoot a fenced animal, I would pass. This, however, would be the most productive way of obtaining venison for the table.

Given the opportunity to go out in the wild and try to find a deer and get close enough to take a shot, I will be the first one out the door. As Kenomac has pointed out, this is a much less productive way of obtaining food.

But it is far more fun.

And I love the thrill of the kill as much as the thrill of the hunt, as well as the thrill of the meal - none of those are separate things.

Mark

[chris mac]

Another aspect of hunting your own food that is often overlooked, and should relate well to sailors, is the diy aspect. Why do most of you want to fix everything yourselves? So if something goes wrong when there is none around, you will fix it and survive.
I hunt, my kids hunt, but most people I know don't. I know that if the world goes to hell, I can still get food for my family.
100 years ago almost everyone could hunt, build a house( or at least a shelter) build a fire without matches, ect. Basically could survive without much help. Now everyone is so dependant on electricity and electronics that half the civilized world would die out if the power got shut off.
Going out in the woods, Lake, ocean, and providing for yourself is good for you. It builds confidence, self reliance and definitely character.
And yes it is fun. But listen to any hunter telling a story and the focus is always on the leadup, or the animal. Never on watching it die, or wanting it to suffer. When it all happens right, it's your best day. When it happens wrong, it's a lot of work but still a great day.
It's a lot like sailing. Try to explain to a land lubber why sailing is so enjoyable;-)

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by weavis

Naah.
I prefer going off for the day on my own fishing........

Yeah ... but you're British. Need I say more .

[captain58sailin]

My interest is putting meat on the table. I have advocated using a hand line with a snubber on the different threads about fishing here and there doesn't seem like much interest from others. I like the simplicity, the low cost and the hands on interaction with the fish catching part.

[Kenomac]

Mike.

You're correct, fishing is very expensive. Which is why we buy our fish at the market.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by Guy

How can you "contemplate nature" one moment and kill a moose the next.? Your minds must be pretty fast in the paradigm shift, or perhaps your version of "nature" has some weird baggage and it's not that difficult to kill a moose.

As a retired environmental scientist I often surprise my more verdant friends when I say I support a properly managed hunting or culling program with conservation objectives.
Natural populations go through cycles of boom and bust in good times and bad. When those bad times inevitably come around individuals can suffer significant starvation and disease. I believe it is more humane, indeed essential, to manage those populations especially since humans have already so significantly altered their natural environment.

For example it only reinforces my cynicism when yet another US congressman (who probably supports hunting in his own country) in response to the animal welfare lobby advocates yet another ban on importing kangaroo products from mine.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Mike OReilly]

As mausgras and AVB have said, properly managed hunting regimes can be a perfectly sustainable and positive practice. Humans are as natural as every other species on this plant, and we have an impact on our ecosystems, just like every other species.

Of course the problem comes in the reality that we are rarely as smart as we think we are with regard to managing ecosystems. Too often we intervene and too often we've been surprised. But in theory (and often in practice) hunting can be a sustainable activity that benefits many.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As mausgras and AVB have said, properly managed hunting regimes can be a perfectly sustainable and positive practice. Humans are as natural as every other species on this plant, and we have an impact on our ecosystems, just like every other species.

Of course the problem comes in the reality that we are rarely as smart as we think we are with regard to managing ecosystems. Too often we intervene and too often we've been surprised. But in theory (and often in practice) hunting can be a sustainable activity that benefits many.

Kangaroo| buffalo and pig hunting, brumby, goat and camel culls are good examples.
The opposite example is of course Japanese whaling, which has little value for food production and significantly det-rimental conservation impacts.
Even the "tradition" argument is lacking. there is nothing tradional about large factory ships accompanied by a flotilla of hunter / chaser Vessels in antarctic waters.
If they they want to use that argument then let them use canoes and hand thrown harpoons in their own coastal waters.

[StuM]

A bullet is a much cleaner and kinder end than being brought down and devoured by carnivores or a slow lingering death from starvation or disease when it is too old/weak to survive.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Mike.

You're correct, fishing is very expensive. Which is why we buy our fish at the market.

What?
Sea fishing from the land is free in the UK.

[weavis]

Bottom line, MOST all recreational hunters and fisherfolk do it because they like it.

I only fish for food or hunt for food. If I dont eat it. like game fish, I dont do it. I will clean and prepare the fish, have some fresh for a couple of days, freeze the rest and dont go again until stocks need replenishing. Dont like the idea of catch and release, a pointless and painful exercise for the fish. If a hook is going in their mouth then it needs to be for food.

I do like to fish. I love the walk along the river or seafront and I love to eat fresh fish. I dont like deer so dont hunt them but will do rabbits and small game. If I liked Moose, I would have a go at that because it would fill the freezer quick....

Its part of being human. If you like meat on the table, someone has to do the deed. Sanitizing it through supermarkets and butchers does not take away the fact.

I used to keep chickens years ago and had no issues eating them. MUCH nicer tasting bird without extra hormones in their bodies. Free range and fed all our scraps.

Even used to put night lines out between tides and came back as it uncovered to find huge Sea Bass on it.

[Mike OReilly]

OK, here's another cost that's hurting right now: campgrounds. Holy Schmoly are they expensive here along the PNW coast. Oregon State Parks run around $25 US, and you get dinged for extra vehicles, which seems particularly unfair for us who are running with two small motorcycles instead on one monster RV. I just looked at one California State Park and they want $35/night plus extra vehicle costs.

These prices seem crazy for someone who just wants to pitch a small tent, especially considering that I can get a not-so-sleazy hotel room for around $50/night in this off-season.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

OK, here's another cost that's hurting right now: campgrounds. Holy Schmoly are they expensive here along the PNW coast. Oregon State Parks run around $25 US, and you get dinged for extra vehicles, which seems particularly unfair for us who are running with two small motorcycles instead on one monster RV. I just looked at one California State Park and they want $35/night plus extra vehicle costs.

These prices seem crazy for someone who just wants to pitch a small tent, especially considering that I can get a not-so-sleazy hotel room for around $50/night in this off-season.

When I first went to Florida, RV park was $10-$15 a night. (2002) Now......... $50-$80 a night.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Guy

How can you "contemplate nature" one moment and kill a moose the next.? Your minds must be pretty fast in the paradigm shift, or perhaps your version of "nature" has some weird baggage and it's not that difficult to kill a moose.

There's absolutely no paradigm shift required to contemplate nature while hunting, and if you don't believe me ask any other carnivore out there. Do all carnivores have "weird baggage?" Hunting and killing another animal for food to eat is as natural and common in nature as a cow killing a blade of grass or a bird eating an insect. Do you assume that an owl doesn't contemplate and appreciate the nature all around him even as he spots a mouse that will soon become his dinner? While it's always nice to bag your quarry and put a whole years worth of meat in the freezer, it's the experience of being more aware of and feeling more a part of nature around you than at any other time that makes it such a special experience. Because you are straining all your senses, as well as using your mind, to try to understand and be aware of other animals around you and how they are affecting each other, you find yourself seeing, hearing, and experiencing things in nature that you've never noticed before and probably never would have if you were not hunting.

Ken has recounted a few experiences he's had and I could add many more. Probably my most unique was while I was sitting quietly along the edge of a partially overgrown woods road, sitting with my back against a big tree next to a very small spruce tree, when suddenly a fox coming from behind me squeezed between the two trees, which put him almost in my lap. The two of us, literally eye to eye with only inches between us, just paused for a second trying to absorb the reality of the presence of the other, and then it was almost as if the fox just shrugged and continued on his way off to my right and out of sight. Nothing quite like that has ever happened to me when i wasn't hunting.

There is no other activity or "sport" that I participate in where I have less success than I do in hunting, particularly whitetail deer hunting. In Maine, where I hunt and the undergrowth is thick, I feel lucky if I even see a deer once in a dozen times I'm in the woods, and usually go several years between managing to get myself into a good enough position to even take a shot. Despite the low odds of "success" (a least for me) on any given day, it's all the other things that happen and things I see and experiences I have as part of the process that keeps me coming back.

I'm not sure if you understand it any better now or even want to try, but be assured that hunting is as integral a part of nature as anything else you could mention, no "paradigm shifts" required. Try it, you might like it more than you think.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I'm not sure if you understand it any better now or even want to try, but be assured that hunting is as integral a part of nature as anything else you could mention, no "paradigm shifts" required. Try it, you might like it more than you think.

You guy's think you were the only ones to grow up in the woods? I grew up shooting wildlife or all sorts. My favorite was shooting frogs with a 22, right between the eyes.
If I am out having a nature moment these days, the shift to killing something is just too big . The dentist who shot the lion, was he enjoying nature?