Stupid, Ridiculous Prices for Stuff

[mausgras]

I guess fear of stupid ridiculous medical prices is one of the budget cruisers main worries.
Just had my first hospital visit since I was born sixty five years ago. The doctor described it as a giant hiatal hernia. Took 3 hours on the operating table and a week in a luxury private hospital. Total out of pocket expense $500.
Been paying $100 a month insurance for the last 15 years. I reckon if I have some metal knees done next year I should about break even.
Thank goodness I dont live in the USA.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by avb3

Went doctor for my annual, blood work, x-rays, ECG, second appointment to remove some moles, prescription written, excetera and paid nothing. Canadian healthcare system. Oh yeah, and got my ear wax flushed out.

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Correction, you paid nothing out of pocket on that day. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Correction, you paid nothing out of pocket on that day. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

LS, I suspect he's saying that he got full top-quality services, without worry or fear of being able to afford the bill. Yes, we pay for all this, but we pay a whole lot less than our American friends.

I actually don't understand how you guys do it. How does an average bloke afford the crazy prices I see quoted here for health insurance? Even the apparently cheap stuff is way more than I pay in taxes, and way more than I could ever afford. I'm incredibly impressed than any middle class American can even contemplate the idea of going cruising. I know I couldn't.

[Cthoops]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I actually don't understand how you guys do it. How does an average bloke afford the crazy prices I see quoted here for health insurance? Even the apparently cheap stuff is way more than I pay in taxes, and way more than I could ever afford. I'm incredibly impressed than any middle class American can even contemplate the idea of going cruising. I know I couldn't.

It really depends on the luck of the draw. Some employers require employees to pay a greater share of the total premium than others. Of course others don't offer insurance at all. Our premiums aren't nearly as high as what has been quoted here, but that's because we are very fortunate in that my employer picks up a very large portion of the cost. Our co-pays are also very reasonable.

In my opinion there's no doubt that the system is broken. "Luck" shouldn't have anything to do with what we pay for health insurance and health care.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

LS,
I actually don't understand how you guys do it. How does an average bloke afford the crazy prices I see quoted here for health insurance? Even the apparently cheap stuff is way more than I pay in taxes, and way more than I could ever afford. I'm incredibly impressed than any middle class American can even contemplate the idea of going cruising. I know I couldn't.

For us the trick was being out of the US long enough each year to qualify for international heath insurance.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

LS, I suspect he's saying that he got full top-quality services, without worry or fear of being able to afford the bill. Yes, we pay for all this, but we pay a whole lot less than our American friends.

I actually don't understand how you guys do it. How does an average bloke afford the crazy prices I see quoted here for health insurance? Even the apparently cheap stuff is way more than I pay in taxes, and way more than I could ever afford. I'm incredibly impressed than any middle class American can even contemplate the idea of going cruising. I know I couldn't.

Mike be reminded that aside from our broken health care system you pay less because you pay a whole lot less for the defense of Canada.

In 2014 the population of the US was 9.1 times greater than the population of Canada. However, in 2014 the USA spent 32 times more for defense than Canada.

18% of the US budget is used for defense. Canada spends 7% of their budget on defense.

Essentially, a US citizen pays 3.6 times more per person for defense of the country and to police the world than does a Canadian citizen.

This gives Canada a nice piece of additional change to allocate to social welfare programs and healthcare.

[jeepbluetj]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

LS, I suspect he's saying that he got full top-quality services, without worry or fear of being able to afford the bill.

As an engineer, this illustrates to me one of the biggest oddities about people. The healthcare Mike has available to him is better and cheaper by almost all metrics than what I have available to me. And by 'cheaper' I'm not ignorant of how it's really paid for. I know the entire tax paying population of Canada pays for it.

If only decisions were made on a "look around and see what works best, then do that" method. Or "we're gonna test these 5 ideas and pick the best one." Maybe even backed up by data and stuff. And not theology/ideology.

Originally Posted by Cthoops

It really depends on the luck of the draw. Some employers require employees to pay a greater share of the total premium than others. Of course others don't offer insurance at all. Our premiums aren't nearly as high as what has been quoted here, but that's because we are very fortunate in that my employer picks up a very large portion of the cost. Our co-pays are also very reasonable.

In my opinion there's no doubt that the system is broken. "Luck" shouldn't have anything to do with what we pay for health insurance and health care.

But that very large portion is YOUR $$$. Why? If your employer tells you to walk out the door, they no longer pay it. So to a large swath of folks that pay for their health insurance the true cost of it is hidden. Or they're of the mistaken belief that it somebody else's money. It's not. It's just employers instead of taxpayers and that tends (imho) to not control costs as well. In the u.s. that magic 'half' of the social security deduction is the same way. Believe me, employers don't pay it out of the goodness of their hearts. It's just done that way so most folks don't see another 7.5% tax on the paycheck.



It is worrisome for long-term cruisers (of which I am not yet one) - what if I need a gallbladder out when I'm in Tahiti? Costs are all over the map depending on where you are. Folks here in SoCal flock to Mexico for dental work. Why? What makes dentistry so different in costs 100 miles apart? (other than liability)

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Mike be reminded that aside from our broken health care system you pay less because you pay a whole lot less for the defense of Canada.

In 2014 the population of the US was 9.1 times greater than the population of Canada. However, in 2014 the USA spent 32 times more for defense than Canada.

18% of the US budget is used for defense. Canada spends 7% of their budget on defense.

Essentially, a US citizen pays 3.6 times more per person for defense of the country and to police the world than does a Canadian citizen.

This gives Canada a nice piece of additional change to allocate to social welfare programs and healthcare.

True, but the US spends more than everyone. From memory you guys spend more than the next 10 biggest military spenders COMBINED.


Why go fast, when you can go slow

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

True, but the US spends more than everyone. From memory you guys spend more than the next 10 biggest military spenders COMBINED.

Naw, we are ranked 4rth per capita behind Saudi Arabia, Singapore, and Israel.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Mike be reminded that aside from our broken health care system you pay less because you pay a whole lot less for the defense of Canada.

In 2014 the population of the US was 9.1 times greater than the population of Canada. However, in 2014 the USA spent 32 times more for defense than Canada.

18% of the US budget is used for defense. Canada spends 7% of their budget on defense.

Essentially, a US citizen pays 3.6 times more per person for defense of the country and to police the world than does a Canadian citizen.

This gives Canada a nice piece of additional change to allocate to social welfare programs and healthcare.

Oh oh! Raise the yellow flag ......
This is a non sequitor. Very few countries spend 18% of their budget on defense.

http://247wallst.com/special-report/...-the-military/

I might as well say that the US economy is also heavily dependent on defence. It is one of the three biggest arms manufacturers and suppliers in the world and is therefore to blame for many of the world's conflicts.

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[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by mausgras

Oh oh! Raise the yellow flag ......
This is a non sequitor. Very few countries spend 18% of their budget on defense.

10 Countries Spending the Most on the Military - 24/7 Wall St.

I might as well say that the US economy is also heavily dependent on defence. It is one of the three biggest arms manufacturers and suppliers in the world and is therefore to blame for many of the world's conflicts.

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1. Our true economy is not dependent on our own defense because it is tax dollars that fund our own defense. And yes, anything we manufacture, export, and sell outside the US would contribute to our economy.

2. Blame for the world's conflicts...it was interesting that on our two year sail on the Atlantic circle tour there were several Europeans that made a special point to thank us for getting involved in various global conflicts. To paraphrase, we know the US gets bashed for being a cop and they are thankless efforts but we are so thankful for what you do because someone has to get involved to keep the world from falling apart.

As far as blame for conflicts by selling arms. Don't see the direct correlation but if there is one I suppose machete manufacturers should share some of that blame.

Nice troll comment!!

[Cthoops]

Originally Posted by cthoops

It really depends on the luck of the draw. Some employers require employees to pay a greater share of the total premium than others. Of course others don't offer insurance at all. Our premiums aren't nearly as high as what has been quoted here, but that's because we are very fortunate in that my employer picks up a very large portion of the cost. Our co-pays are also very reasonable.

In my opinion there's no doubt that the system is broken. "Luck" shouldn't have anything to do with what we pay for health insurance and health care.

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

But that very large portion is YOUR $$$. Why? If your employer tells you to walk out the door, they no longer pay it. So to a large swath of folks that pay for their health insurance the true cost of it is hidden. Or they're of the mistaken belief that it somebody else's money. It's not. It's just employers instead of taxpayers and that tends (imho) to not control costs as well. In the u.s. that magic 'half' of the social security deduction is the same way. Believe me, employers don't pay it out of the goodness of their hearts. It's just done that way so most folks don't see another 7.5% tax on the paycheck.

Oh, I definitely understand the idea that the employer portion is considered by some to be "my money", but I am not in the camp that believes that if the employer didn't have to pay it, my wages would suddenly go up by the amount that they currently pay.

It may be cynical, but I firmly believe that if employers no longer had to pay for a portion of their employees' health insurance premiums (because, for example, hell froze over and the U.S. actually adopted a universal system), the only one that would benefit would be the employer in the form of fatter profits. Very little of it - if any - would trickle down to me.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

1. Our true economy is not dependent on our own defense because it is tax dollars that fund our own defense. And yes, anything we manufacture, export, and sell outside the US would contribute to our economy.

2. Blame for the world's conflicts...it was interesting that on our two year sail on the Atlantic circle tour there were several Europeans that made a special point to thank us for getting involved in various global conflicts. To paraphrase, we know the US gets bashed for being a cop and they are thankless efforts but we are so thankful for what you do because someone has to get involved to keep the world from falling apart.

As far as blame for conflicts by selling arms. Don't see the direct correlation but if there is one I suppose machete manufacturers should share some of that blame.

Nice troll comment!!

Clearly Lake Superior you need to read my post again.
I was not trolling (is that a word) I was illustrating your non sequitur with one of my own. I do not believe the US defence industry causes international conflict anymore than it allows Canada to spend more on health or education.
As another close ally of the US I actually found your suggestion that Canada somehow bludges off the US when it comes to defence as sailing close to the wind offensive.

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[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Naw, we are ranked 4rth per capita behind Saudi Arabia, Singapore, and Israel.

Hmmm, interesting way to look at it Bill. According to the god of wiki, the US currently spends more on their military budget than the next nine largest spending nations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#/media/File:Top_ten_military_expenditures_in_US$_Bn._in_2 014,_according_to_the_International_Institute_for_ Strategic_Studies.PNG

It's true, that per-capita the US only ranks fourth in the world. I'm not a military guy, so I can't tell if that is a meaningful way to measure total expenditures. I do know the $581 billion the USA spent last year is a lot ... a lot more than everyone else.

It's true the American military umbrella does cover most of the Western world. One can argue whether this is a good thing or not. I do know it is a policy decision made by your government, and it's clearly not purely altruistic.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by mausgras

As another close ally of the US I actually found your suggestion that Canada somehow bludges off the US when it comes to defence as sailing close to the wind offensive.

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Not sure what you mean as I don't understand the slang. But if it means that Canada looks to the US as part of their defense strategy please show me what part of my post suggests that. And why would it be offensive if so suggested?