Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Everything being driven by ever increasing consumption. There is a limit to how much one can consume so we pay people to pop out kids or pay immigrants to come so we can sell them more stuff.

An ever increasing number of people to buy an ever increasing pile of stuff while depleting resources and ever larger carbon footprints. We neither need growth nor more people. This cannot end well.

Ah, I see. Got it. Thanks.

Yes, if we could move away from consumerism we would be less reliant on endless population growth. Even better would be to decouple the productivity aspect of "jobs" from the wealth distribution aspect.

I'm heartened to see so many efforts in this regard during the shut downs. Various countries have instituted different ways to get funds (resources) into the hands of non-working citizens. These are all some version of a universal basic income.

I hope this too is one of the lasting lessons that we carry forward.

[AKA-None]

How many jobs aren’t involved in some sort of make or fix stuff? In other words not involved in selling to others?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, if we could move away from consumerism we would be less reliant on endless population growth.

I see it the other way. If we stopped our endless population growth we would be less dependant on "consumerism", aka productivity like making the boat I live on.

We could all go back to hunting and gathering

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Perhaps one of the lasting lessons from this Covid Catastrophe will be that we learn what we really need, vs what we want.

That would be nice.

[outbound_308]

Will be retiring at 56. Worked in IT most of my life and ready to unplug, so much more interesting things to learn. Learned to sail earlier this year and go every weekend, re-learning spanish, playing guitar/music theory, diesel mechanics, boat electrical, getting good at celestial navigation.....There is plenty to keep the brain engaged after retirement, as I will want and need all of these skills. Seems a lot better option than sitting in the recliner eating and drinking yourself to death watching people pretend to live on the tube.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by outbound_308

Will be retiring at 56. Worked in IT most of my life and ready to unplug, so much more interesting things to learn. Learned to sail earlier this year and go every weekend, re-learning spanish, playing guitar/music theory, diesel mechanics, boat electrical, getting good at celestial navigation.....There is plenty to keep the brain engaged after retirement, as I will want and need all of these skills. Seems a lot better option than sitting in the recliner eating and drinking yourself to death watching people pretend to live on the tube.

Congrats . I stepped away from most paying work at 48. My spouse was about the same age. That was five years ago and we haven't looked back.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

How many jobs aren’t involved in some sort of make or fix stuff? In other words not involved in selling to others?

,

I learned about the middle of my career that EVERYBODY is selling something, to some extent, even if it's only their talents.

A trend that concerns me is how much the financial services sector has grown. A minimum of financial infrastructure is of course required, but it seems to me that too much of that sector is simply making money from making money - ie not connected to actual goods or necessary services.

[outbound_308]

@Mike,
Yeah really looking forward to it. Not to advertise or anything but getting on the Dave Ramsey plan after I made some horrible mistakes after a divorce 20 years ago has really changed things for the better for me. I drive a ten year old paid for truck. Co workers buy a new 70,000 Yukon every two years.....they can't understand how I afford things or plan to retire.....duh

That would be my one piece of advice to young people or people wanting to retire. No debt but the house(eliminate that if you can) and you will be amazed at how little you need to live well.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by outbound_308

@Mike,
Yeah really looking forward to it. Not to advertise or anything but getting on the Dave Ramsey plan after I made some horrible mistakes after a divorce 20 years ago has really changed things for the better for me. I drive a ten year old paid for truck. Co workers buy a new 70,000 Yukon every two years.....they can't understand how I afford things or plan to retire.....duh

That would be my one piece of advice to young people or people wanting to retire. No debt but the house(eliminate that if you can) and you will be amazed at how little you need to live well.

Ten year old truck paid for truck?

I thought this was normal for anyone over 50 and especially over 60 if possible

(but some have unknowns that pop up like medical problems and paying for a family member's rent, car payment, groceries, electric bills, cable, phones, medical insurance, car insurance, etc)

With us, it's paid for 2002 Jeep GC, 2004 Jeep GC, 2007 Jeep GC, 2004 Cavalier.

Paid for sailboat, paid for home, etc etc........

Looks like 82 year old Barclay Tagg is all about the horses though......

http://www.barclaytaggracing.com/our-team.shtml

And it's paying off especially here lately with Tiz the Law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrSN...ature=youtu.be

[wingssail]

We never actually retired, we just quit our jobs and went sailing. I was 50, Judy 46. Were we privileged? Yes, in a way; we lived in a country where hard work and some education allowed us good earnings. But we were frugal. Never had a new car (you could get a serviceable car for $1000 in the 80's). Never took a real vacation(airplane, hotel, etc). Had a budget and stuck to it. Moved onto the boat (yes we had a boat). And had a plan, (I'm a project planner, so, of course).

So at 50 I (we) took off. In 2 years we were out of money. That was a surprise (we thought it would take 7 years). Landed in New Zealand and went looking for jobs. Got them (thanks to Y2K). So we were back in the world of work.

After a year and a half we set sail again, with a refreshed cruising kitty.

That cycle continued until 2009 when, after a really good job in Thailand, we finally hit a realistic financial target and quit for good.

Since then we work hard at sailing, boat maintenance, hobbies, living. I'm 74. Who knows how long I'll last? But I believe that one can keep on working "and maybe winning" at ever older ages. Do we want to? Not me, I prefer sailing.

Can people make it on one salary? Some can, most cannot. It depends on luck, family support and family history, and yes, hard work, and...your own skill set.

But inequality is hurting MOST people world wide. Since 1980 the accumulation of wealth by the top 1% at the expense of the general population has been astonishing. In the US the top 1% of the people have 80% of the wealth. This is duplicated in income and elite education. The trend is accelerating. With so little of the "Pie" to be split by so many it gets harder to succeed financially. It is still possible and I think I could still get ahead if I was working, even starting out, but many people cannot. I think my kids could, and can, but I don't see them doing it. The US is still the land of opportunity, but few will realize it. For the average, non-achiever, we will sink to the world wide level, because we do have a global economy, whether we like it or not and each of us is competing with people around the world, most of whom will work for less than we will.

But things can be done. Compensation can be leveled. Taxes can be more progressive, wealth itself can be taxed, corporations can be prevented from moving profits to low tax countries. Between 1914 and 1980 inequality was much reduced, down to 30-40% of total wealth and income going to the top 1% and during that time we still had excellent economic growth.

Will it happen? If not we will see more populism as the losers in this race get more desperate.

Read, if you can tolerate the dryness of it, Thomas Piketty, Capital and Ideology,

https://www.amazon.com/Capital-Ideol...s%2C259&sr=8-1

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I don't know if this represents people suddenly deciding to make a permanent change; I think these factors are more influential:

• it's a crisis that has brought income insecurity to many
• aid programs came online fairly quickly, but with the uncertainty, I believe many people squirreled away as much of it as possible for future use.
• for those with wealth or income... there simply weren't as many places to spend itas they usually would (travel, dining out).

It will be life long for some, I imagine. One of the best hard lessons I ever received, was losing everything I owned, to Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

Standing in the mud, in the remains of my waterfront home, and looking around at all my once shiny stuff, that I had been slaving away to buy for my whole life, covered in black gooey muck, and ruined, I had an epiphany that has stuck with me ever since. That epiphany is simply stated as "less is more".

My pre-Katrina self, would barely recognize my post Katrina self. I've become a happy minimalist, and going on long cruises in a relatively small boat (42 feet) is just one of the signs of that significant change in my attitude toward "stuff".

I just wish it had happened thirty years earlier!

[ol1970]

All this talk reminds me of what my grandfather told me one summer while I help him with his business hauling seed corn to the farmers he would sell product to. We'd drop off a load at various spots and I'd see the disparity in wealth at various farms, at the crappy spots he'd get the cash before we'd unload...and when I asked him about why there is such a difference here was his response:

"kid, the poor farmers you see always have and excuse, there is always a reason they are a victim of something that isn't in their control. Don't be a victim." He then summarized by turning to me and saying: "you need to realize in life that the world needs ditch diggers too." I didn't really understand this until much later in life. He passed away a few summers later at in the early 90's only 68 years a millionaire who was immigrants son and never in his life made more than $35,000 in a year and raised a family of 5 boys. In todays dollars that is a hell of an accomplishment for someone who wrapped up his educational career by driving himself to his 8th grade graduation. So hearing people say "they can't, or it is impossible" tells me everything I need to know about their mentality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with any line of work that puts food on the table and a roof over your head. I have personally done all of these jobs myself from the age of 10 on, and decided from the back breaking or tedious work, that I wanted better for myself and my family. If your skill set and aspirations in life is that of a minimum wage job any teenager could do as a summer job, you sort of fall into the ditchdigger category, and I can fully understand why you'd want to retire as soon as humanly possible. The world doesn't owe you anything, there is no such thing as a god given right to raising a family on an average salary, nor a cushy retirement.

[outbound_308]

Yeah, people still trying to impress people they don't even know. Truck got hit by hail, everyone gave me crap and said I needed to get a new one, nope I have a plan. Don't care what a bunch of people that I don't know think about me.

@wingssail, not sure why you are surprised, but I disagree it's not the evil business owner/corporation. When I was in college they were preaching this global economy stuff way back then. OK great according to my Econ professor all economies are circular, so if we jump into a global economy when our standard of living is the highest in the world what do you expect to happen? Our standard of living will go down and every one eases that we do business with will rise. If corporations are allowed to use a different labor pool then of course they get richer and the local worker gets poorer. They also put out of business the smaller companies that cannot afford to ship their labor over seas.

Is this where we want to go? I have no idea, but it's where we are. I would like to see some type of import law that at least requires these countries we do business with to produce under the same OSHA , pollution regulations etc that we have to produce under here. I think most corporations fight that though to keep their margins.

Who knows maybe this whole covid thing will shake things up on that front.

[Mike OReilly]

Indeed, "less is more." Of course, this is the complete opposite message our whole culture and economy screams at us all the time. From the moment we're born we're bombarded with signals of more, More, MORE! The concept of enough is never on the table in our consumerist economies.

Debt is the way most people become enslaved these days. Getting, and remaining, debt-free is the key to being free. But as you rightly say wingssail, a lot depends on "luck, family support and family history, and yes, hard work, and...your own skill set." Not all of us are as privileged to start out with the right combination of these factors.

Most people who continue to work well past traditional retirement age do so because they have no choice. Certainly some, like our OP here, do so because they love what they do and find fulfillment in that life. That's great. All the power to you . But that's not the reason for most.

[outbound_308]

@ol1970
Exactly, if everyone can do what you do, don't expect to get paid to much to do it. Nothing wrong with doing it if that's what you want to do, but understand it. We have unfortunately (my generation) raised our kids and told them go to college no matter what so you won't have to work hard like I did. I believe this is a mistake we are seeing the result of now. Plenty of opportunity out there in jobs they can't ship over seas. Every welder, hvac, plumber, electrician, nurse, diesel mechanic etc I know has more work than they want and can quit any job they don't like and go get another one. The educations for these jobs is very inexpensive compared to a four year degree, but our kids have been taught to look down on this kind of work.