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Old 25-06-2020, 08:50   #76
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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All this talk reminds me of what my grandfather told me one summer while I help him with his business hauling seed corn to the farmers he would sell product to. We'd drop off a load at various spots and I'd see the disparity in wealth at various farms, at the crappy spots he'd get the cash before we'd unload...and when I asked him about why there is such a difference here was his response:

"kid, the poor farmers you see always have and excuse, there is always a reason they are a victim of something that isn't in their control. Don't be a victim." He then summarized by turning to me and saying: "you need to realize in life that the world needs ditch diggers too." I didn't really understand this until much later in life. He passed away a few summers later at in the early 90's only 68 years a millionaire who was immigrants son and never in his life made more than $35,000 in a year and raised a family of 5 boys. In todays dollars that is a hell of an accomplishment for someone who wrapped up his educational career by driving himself to his 8th grade graduation. So hearing people say "they can't, or it is impossible" tells me everything I need to know about their mentality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with any line of work that puts food on the table and a roof over your head. I have personally done all of these jobs myself from the age of 10 on, and decided from the back breaking or tedious work, that I wanted better for myself and my family. If your skill set and aspirations in life is that of a minimum wage job any teenager could do as a summer job, you sort of fall into the ditchdigger category, and I can fully understand why you'd want to retire as soon as humanly possible. The world doesn't owe you anything, there is no such thing as a god given right to raising a family on an average salary, nor a cushy retirement.
Sometimes it's not that simple why some folks end up with low to minimum wage jobs and others with 6 figure jobs are better.

If you are from a rural area especially back in the day, it's very hard to escape from being a farmer, waterman, delivery vender, or truck driver unless you make a drastic move of some sort.

My me, it was going into the military, and because I was a natural tech nerd which I didn't know I was yet.

Then the choice was 0300 Grunt (marine infantry) or this strange tech job that they really couldn't explain to me. They being the recruiter.

You had to pass a difficult math/electronics test to qualify for this MOS. I maxed out the math and blew the electronic portion but the combined score got me in.

Both Infantry and the tech MOS had a $2500 bonus if you could complete the schools.

I went the tech route and applied myself for the first time in my life to school because I didn't want to drive tractors my whole life or be a truck driver.

But the other reason was because I wanted to get rid of my car payment and boat payment. This at 18 years old.

In other words, sometimes a little luck helps and some natural/innate ability in the right area
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Old 25-06-2020, 11:26   #77
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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Here's some interesting Covid-19 news (good? bad?):

U.S. savings rate hits record 33% as coronavirus causes Americans to stockpile cash, curb spending

Perhaps one of the lasting lessons from this Covid Catastrophe will be that we learn what we really need, vs what we want.

Bad news.



As one must consider if savings are good for the economy.


Savings are not investments.


Savings are cash removed from circulation, savings are blood removed from the body.


Go donate blood at the donor point. Maybe you feel emotionally better for a moment, but you may notice some softness in the legs too.


In near zero or negative yields economy, savings do not generate any cash flow, any income. This is 'dead money' may add peace to some minds but does not make our life better - for it does not earn us any monthly advantage (interest, dividend, whatever).



But you may have read my comment above on near impossibility of investments for plain joe.



So here is our joe with his cash in hand. Emotionally safer but otherwise worse off.


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Old 25-06-2020, 11:35   #78
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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Ten year old truck paid for truck? I thought this was normal for anyone over 50 and especially over 60 if possible...
No, unfortunately, it is not. My older sister has made more money than I have her entire life. Yet I have at least 10 times as much in savings as she does. Why? She's 65 years old and she just bought herself a brand, new, $50k truck, even though the six year old one that she traded in was in perfectly good condition. She spends money like it grows on trees, and then wonders why I can afford to retire, and she can't.


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In the US the top 1% of the people have 80% of the wealth.
Do you have a source for that? Because everything that I've seen says you are wrong about this.


For example, both the Pew Institute and the Brookings institute say that it is the top 20% that hold 80% of the wealth (https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020...th-inequality/ and https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...united-states/). This source (https://equitablegrowth.org/the-dist...net-worth-tax/) says that the top 1% hold about 40% of the wealth.


It is still true, of course, that wealth is not distributed anywhere close to evenly, and the very wealthy control an inordinate percentage of the world's assets. I am not disputing that at all. Still, getting the facts correct does count for something.
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Old 25-06-2020, 11:43   #79
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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No, unfortunately, it is not. My older sister has made more money than I have her entire life. Yet I have at least 10 times as much in savings as she does. Why? She's 65 years old and she just bought herself a brand, new, $50k truck, even though the six year old one that she traded in was in perfectly good condition. She spends money like it grows on trees, and then wonders why I can afford to retire, and she can't.
Nice.

My sister and her husband retired 25 years ago. My sister is late 60's.

They then went to the Bahamas. She lasted a couple months at the marina and on the boat then came back home. Fishing, diving, and chatting got old pretty fast

They had a 35' power yacht then.

He now has a 44' Yacht that he sometimes keeps at Man O War Cay. ( or up here in Summer)

She bought a used Jaguar I think a 2004 maybe 14 years ago and that is it for her except she did get a zero turn riding lawn mower a few years ago to maintain and cut their 5 acre yard.

The retirement hasn't been a plus for her. I think she should have kept working.

The point being just because you can afford to retire doesn't necessarily mean you should which is the point I was trying to make with this thread

Barclay Tagg could have retired years ago ................
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Old 25-06-2020, 11:44   #80
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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She spends money like it grows on trees, and then wonders why I can afford to retire, and she can't.

.
This was a common thread among our working friends (and, even family), when they found out we were retiring and going on a long term cruise on our boat, while they still needed to work fifteen to twenty more years.

The fact that we were driving ten year old, rather plain cars, while they were all driving brand new F250s and Tahoes, did not seem to register.

They were all sure we had inherited money we weren't telling anyone about.
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Old 25-06-2020, 12:02   #81
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

Yes Barn, that's the paradox of consumer capitalism; while it may be good for the individual saver, it is bad if everyone saves. It's almost a "too big to fail" argument though. It locks the status quo forever.

And while socking away money in savings may not generate any real returns, it's still valuable to the individual. Building a reserve fund, regardless of whether it generates passive income, can still be a good thing -- for the individual.
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Old 25-06-2020, 12:40   #82
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

Retired doesn’t mean “old” per say, retired just means that you no longer have a traditional job so to speak. My father is going on ninety one years old, still bike riding lifting weights and swimming, a big part of being an old fart and being active is the old adage, “use it or lose it”, it is always awesome to see older women and men still healthy and active. Gives us aspiring old farts hope

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Old 25-06-2020, 12:48   #83
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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Yes Barn, that's the paradox of consumer capitalism; while it may be good for the individual saver, it is bad if everyone saves. It's almost a "too big to fail" argument though. It locks the status quo forever.

And while socking away money in savings may not generate any real returns, it's still valuable to the individual. Building a reserve fund, regardless of whether it generates passive income, can still be a good thing -- for the individual.

YES and NO (arghhh and I hate myself for times like this)


These savings in this article are unlikely cash in hand. And cash is not perfect, either.



Now a reserve fund (savings, just outside a savings account) held in any bank is more prone to a system collapse than investments. Investments are mostly long term and aimed at low risk instruments (e.g. US govt bonds). So investments, even if accounted by a financial agent (bank, fund, institution) are often a third party product (US govt backed).


Look, a bank collapses, the savings disappear (read latest news from Wirecard AG, Germany). But if the brokerage that got you US gilts collapses, you still own the bonds, collect their interest, and you can dispose of them freely too.



Should the savings be in cash, then cash can be stolen, or the house may burn down, or come flood big New Orleans style ...


Basically, I think, then we must ask: "what savings"?


I am a big fan of having a small amount, say a 2-month worth of your minimal lifestyle. Preferably in gold chocolate bars of the combibar style.


A generic example (I am not associated, nor indorse any product):
https://www.swissbullion.ch/en/produ...combi-gold-bar



10g version exists and is much easier to cash.



Except the savings in the article are not what we think when we see gold inglots.



Actually, here, I deleted the rest of my post. I think it is such a vast subject. And of interest to so few.


To sum up: imho savings, when seen as 'not spendings' are bad for the holder and for the system. Savings in a bank account will be a disaster - in times of disaster, and not required at all other times.



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Old 25-06-2020, 13:21   #84
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

And yes. I retired at 35. It does not mean on is old. Just one retires (from a job, or art or social life, or horse racing).


It is better this way as at 35 we often can / want do things we no longer do at 65.


Not looking back. Would repeat the same mistake again.



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Old 25-06-2020, 14:57   #85
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

So, lots of good input here to consider.

Since the start of the virus, we haven't seen our 80 year old programmer that handled the updates on our old Encore mainframes that went off line in November. He's one of those guys that buys donuts for the door/access control guards each day that cannot leave their posts

He has rightly decided to stay at home.

One of my guys is 70 and hasn't missed a day. He is at this time preparing to pass the Comptia Security + exam

I'm hiring 28 year old techs that consider that exam tough, but I'm thinking my older tech will pass it

I was forced to acquire the A+ Cert (by learning the material in a 900 page book and being able to apply it and answer troubleshooting hardware, software, and network questions on two exams while also running the site) and I haven't been a tech since 1995 when we were using DOS 3.2

I got it but it (the studying etc) totally burnt out my brain in the process. It had to be completed in 90 days. I'm now allowing it (my brain) to recover before study for the Network + Cert.

I wish I knew the answer to the retirement question, but I think it's different strokes for different folks.

I ran 3 miles on Wednesday after pull ups and push ups but on the trails I didn't see anyone like me. They were all 20-30 year old girls and guys in excellent condition bouncing off the ground

Joe Biden is running for prez now and that is a very tough job if you try to do it properly at age 70 plus.

I know that wouldn't be what I'd want to do at that age but......
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Old 25-06-2020, 15:42   #86
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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Joe Biden is running for prez now and that is a very tough job if you try to do it properly at age 70 plus.

I know that wouldn't be what I'd want to do at that age but......
I think all you have to do is watch a few recent videos of Biden, to realize he may be one more person that waited too long to do something he really wanted to do, and ran out of health before they ran out of plans.
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Old 25-06-2020, 15:50   #87
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

Webb Chiles ... circumnavigating solo in a surfboard on steroids (board, not Webb) at 75.



or maybe ...


With the Solar Impulse 2, he broke the record of the longest solo flight, previously held by Steve Fosset. On 3 July 2015, Borschberg flew the solar powered airplane between Nagoya (Japan) and Kalaeloa, Hawaii (US) for a duration of 4 days, 21 hours and 52 minutes.[8]



Andre was I think 62 at that time.


These are only two of thousands of people of any age that go everywhere, do everything.


They want it, they reach for it, they get it.


A quote from Webb:


"... live passionately even if it kills you, because something is going to kill you anyway..."


Spot on, imho.


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Old 26-06-2020, 05:13   #88
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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"With $10/hr minimum wage in most areas, that translates to around $40k/yr if working full time. While we make more, that's about what we spend for a very comfortable lifestyle. "

Couldn't let this quote go , at $10 hr full time, that's $20,800 a year - a whole lot less than 40k ...

Seems that would make a huge difference...
You took the quote out of context...if you go back to the post, it was in a section talking about families where husband and wife were both working...so if they are both working at $10/hr full time, it's around $40k.
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Old 26-06-2020, 05:15   #89
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

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No, I am referencing the exhaustive economic and social literature on the subject which has identified that while the cost of living has increased over the last 30 years or so, wages have not kept up. It's quite simple.
I've yet to see one of these studies that keeps the standard of living constant. Go back and reread some of the posts describing how the modern standard of living has increased to see how that works.

Also most of these studies are focused on justifying higher minimum wages.
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Old 26-06-2020, 05:24   #90
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Re: Still Working (and winning) at Age 82

Savings rates typically go up during troubles but unless it goes on for a few years (ie: like the Great Depression), people are unlikely to internalize it. As soon as things go back to normal, people will go back to not saving.
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