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Old 08-06-2021, 17:25   #1681
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Re: Science & Technology News

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
“Satellites Show How Earth's Water Cycle Is Ramping Up as Climate Warms”

NASA scientists have studied 17 years of gravity observations of our planet to understand how the global water cycle is changing.
The rate at which plants and the land surface release moisture into the air has increased on a global scale between 2003 and 2019. These processes are collectively known as evapotranspiration, and a new NASA study [1] has calculated its increase by using observations from gravity satellites.

But how does the rate of evapotranspiration affect the global water cycle? As moisture from the oceans circulates through the atmosphere, a portion falls as precipitation over the continents. Some of this water goes into rivers as runoff, and some seeps into soils. The remaining water evaporates from the land and transpires from plants back into the air.

Finding that evapotranspiration is increasing at a faster rate than previously known has implications for understanding how climate change could impact Earth in the future. As the world warms, evapotranspiration will accelerate, speeding up the drying of land and vegetation. Weather patterns can also be affected: Increased evaporation from land can create droughts in some regions.

This is a symptom of a warming world that can have major consequences for ecosystems and human societies as stress on surface and groundwater supplies increases.

Much More About: ➥ https://climate.nasa.gov/news/3086/s...climate-warms/

The Study:
[1] “A 10% increase in global land evapotranspiration from 2003 to 2019” ~ by Madeleine Pascolini-Campbell et al
[Abstract] ➥ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03503-5




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Isn't it silly, more vapour leads to more rain, so there will be droughts, drying land (because the rain is dry right? or does it mean the wet land will dry again after the rain? ).

50% increase of almost nothing is still nothing, just 50% more of it, right?

All fossile fuel was first CO2 in the atmosphere, and then burried and taken away from the food chain, now humans bring it back in circulation, lets celebrate closing the cycle and fixing the issue.
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Old 08-06-2021, 18:44   #1682
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Re: Science & Technology News

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Isn't it silly, more vapour leads to more rain, so there will be droughts, drying land (because the rain is dry right? or does it mean the wet land will dry again after the rain? ).

50% increase of almost nothing is still nothing, just 50% more of it, right?

All fossile fuel was first CO2 in the atmosphere, and then burried and taken away from the food chain, now humans bring it back in circulation, lets celebrate closing the cycle and fixing the issue.


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Old 08-06-2021, 18:54   #1683
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Re: Science & Technology News

Co2 is a good thing for the planet.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...greening-earth
More plant food = more people food .
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Old 08-06-2021, 21:13   #1684
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Re: Science & Technology News

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A lovely deflection tactic here: pretending that pollution, CC... they're all down to personal, individual actions and choices, and not something fundamental in how most developed nations currently operate. "If you own a car/boat/house but are worried about climate change, you're a hypocrite". etc, etc.

A common form of this smokescreen is AlGoraphobia.

It's a willful avoidance of what the real problems are, and at what level the solutions must be implemented. COVID has been a comparable but time-compressed global crisis, and there's been little dispute that international cooperation and government leadership and intervention were absolutely necessary. So, instead of that effort, we should have just told everyone that "if you're worried about COVID, but you go to work, shop for food, visit your relatives... you're a hypocrite"? Yeah, that would have worked.

And you've already mentioned that the proposed solution to CC is to revert back to some sort of agrarian dystopia. You're not missing a trick!

No deflection at all. It's just the facts. Hyperbolically speaking, if you want to believe the world is ending and finger waggle and blame the fossil fuel extractors and claim the government must "do something" in between bouts of salivating over the brochures for your next SUV purchase then that, like it or lump it, makes you a hypocrite.
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Old 08-06-2021, 23:13   #1685
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Re: Science & Technology News

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Like I said, here we go again . Just stop. We all know your views. We don't need it repeated ad infinitum.
But it's fine if you express your views on the subject as often as you like? Just because you seem to be in the majority? I think we all know your views, as well. Does that mean you should also stop expressing them?


In another post you wrote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
For those of you who want to challenge the consensus scientific view on anthropogenic climate change, go off and become a climate scientist. Until you do, I'll listen to actual climate scientists.
Believe it or not, there are some* actual climate scientists who don't agree with the theory that man has a meaningful impact on climate. And that means that unless you are a climate scientist, then we are all just selectively parroting what we've heard and choose to believe.

I do not deny that man has a non-trivial impact on climate. But I don't necessarily believe it either. Fact is: I don't know. And neither does any scientist. There simply is no proof that climate change is affected by man. If you think there is, I'd like to see it. And I don't mean some studies that show that CO2 levels have risen since the industrial revolution which corresponds to rising temperatures. Correlation does not imply causality. Scientific proof would require a control Earth with no humans to prove that the climate would not have changed in the way that it has in the absence of humans. And it would have to be repeatable. Good luck with that.

All of that is not to say that we shouldn't make a substantial effort to be more responsible when it comes to our own home. That's just good sense.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm really put off by the level of smugness of the "true believers" ... of anything.




*I would wager that there are many that have remained silent for fear of ridicule or career suicide. And that alone should tell you something.


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The scientific theorist is not to be envied. For Nature, or more precisely experiment, is an inexorable and not very friendly judge of his work. It never says "Yes" to a theory. In the most favorable cases it says "Maybe", and in the great majority of cases simply "No". If an experiment agrees with a theory it means for the latter "Maybe", and if it does not agree it means "No". Probably every theory will someday experience its "No" - most theories, soon after conception.
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Old 09-06-2021, 03:40   #1686
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Re: Science & Technology News

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Co2 is a good thing for the planet.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...greening-earth
More plant food = more people food .
"... While rising carbon dioxide concentrations in the air can be beneficial for plants, it is also the chief culprit of climate change..."

It’s a complicated world, isn’t it?
Would that every issue were strictly binary.
Perhaps, something LESS than a level of 419 PPM of CO2 (& rising) might be more optimal, overall?


The linked NASA article concludes: Read the paper at Nature Climate Change.
www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate3004.html
Is this the referenced study?
“Greening of the Earth and its drivers”https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1328357
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Old 09-06-2021, 03:53   #1687
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Re: Science & Technology News

“Climate change: world’s lakes are in hot water – threatening rare wildlife” ~ Opinion by Antonia Law

Lakes are getting hotter, and their concentration of dissolved oxygen is dropping, writes physical geographer Antonia Law. Researchers analysed [1] 393 temperate lakes, between 1981 and 2017, and found that their temperatures rose by 0.39°C every decade, and dissolved oxygen fell by 5% at the surface and 19% in the depths.

We can expect more harmful algae blooms, a rise in fish pathogens, and the loss of cold-water habitats, that shelter fish, such as trout and salmon, writes Law. “Without immediate action to curb emissions and slow climate change, many of the world’s lakes are on course for a sweltering, breathless and lifeless future,” she argues.
More ➥ https://theconversation.com/climate-...ildlife-156148

The study:
[1] “Widespread deoxygenation of temperate lakes” ~ by Stephen F. Jane et al
https://www.nature.com/articles/s415...9iiPH2k4JMo%3D
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Old 09-06-2021, 03:56   #1688
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Re: Science & Technology News

Alzheimer’s drug controversially approved

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the first new drug for Alzheimer’s disease in 18 years: aducanumab, developed by US biotechnology company Biogen. It is also the first approved drug that attempts to treat a possible cause of the neurodegenerative disease — plaques of amyloid-β protein in the brain — rather than just the symptoms. But many researchers do not welcome the FDA’s decision. Evidence that links reductions in plaque levels to improvements in cognition is “thin, at best”, says geriatrician Jason Karlawish. Approval of a drug that focuses on amyloid might dampen efforts to find other treatments.

“Landmark Alzheimer’s drug approval confounds research community” ~ by Asher Mullard
Many scientists say there is not enough evidence that Biogen’s aducanumab is an effective therapy for the disease.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01546-2
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Old 09-06-2021, 05:20   #1689
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Re: Science & Technology News

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But it's fine if you express your views on the subject as often as you like? Just because you seem to be in the majority? I think we all know your views, as well. Does that mean you should also stop expressing them?
If you cared to use evidence to base your comments on, you'd know I rarely step into these conversations. Mainly it's because it is dominated by the same old posters saying the same old things, over and over.

But every once in a while I break down and (foolishly) step in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPatrick View Post
Believe it or not, there are some* actual climate scientists who don't agree with the theory that man has a meaningful impact on climate. And that means that unless you are a climate scientist, then we are all just selectively parroting what we've heard and choose to believe.
Yes, there are a very small number. That's what a consensus means. It doesn't mean 100% conformity. It means the vast majority of credible researchers are now basing their current work on next-level problems in the field. It is how science progresses. At some point a consensus emerges that shifts hypothesis into theory (scientific theory ... which is not the same as the way you use it).

BTW, this is the basis for the 97% number, which is an assessment of recent published climate change research where conclusions support the consensus view.

Quote:
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I do not deny that man has a non-trivial impact on climate. But I don't necessarily believe it either. Fact is: I don't know.
Yes, this is a fact. It's also irrelevant, but it is a fact.

Quote:
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There simply is no proof that climate change is affected by man. If you think there is, I'd like to see it.
This is simply false. The evidence is mountains. Go read some actual climate research.

[QUOTE=SeanPatrick;3422887]I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm really put off by the level of smugness of the "true believers" ... of anything.

Our smugness This from the fellow who hears the vast majority of actual experts in the field say one thing, and you say: "Nah... you're all wrong. I, the Internet expert, know better."

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Old 09-06-2021, 07:36   #1690
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Re: Science & Technology News

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I do not deny that man has a non-trivial impact on climate. But I don't necessarily believe it either. Fact is: I don't know. And neither does any scientist. There simply is no proof that climate change is affected by man. If you think there is, I'd like to see it. And I don't mean some studies that show that CO2 levels have risen since the industrial revolution which corresponds to rising temperatures. Correlation does not imply causality. Scientific proof would require a control Earth with no humans to prove that the climate would not have changed in the way that it has in the absence of humans. And it would have to be repeatable. Good luck with that.

  1. You're demanding an impossible level of experimental proof. Because that method of proof is unachievable does NOT mean that the truth cannot be learned by other means.
  2. Correlation points to causality when there are no other plausible explanations that can account for the observations. Occam's Razor.
  3. It's pretty f'ing clear that increasing the atmospheric CO2 by 40+% is having an effect.
  4. There are 999 other reasons for moderating our consumption of fossil fuels and polluting less, that have nothing to do with climate change
Quote:
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm really put off by the level of smugness of the "true believers" ... of anything.
Fair enough. I would hasten to add that several of us wouldn't make a peep about climate change on a CRUISING FORUM, if others hadn't first decided to bless CF with their anti-science CC denial rants. Chicken and egg, of course.
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Old 09-06-2021, 09:39   #1691
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Re: Science & Technology News

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post

  1. You're demanding an impossible level of experimental proof. Because that method of proof is unachievable does NOT mean that the truth cannot be learned by other means.
  2. Correlation points to causality when there are no other plausible explanations that can account for the observations. Occam's Razor.
  3. It's pretty f'ing clear that increasing the atmospheric CO2 by 40+% is having an effect.
  4. There are 999 other reasons for moderating our consumption of fossil fuels and polluting less, that have nothing to do with climate change
Fair enough. I would hasten to add that several of us wouldn't make a peep about climate change on a CRUISING FORUM, if others hadn't first decided to bless CF with their anti-science CC denial rants. Chicken and egg, of course.
Let's see
)1 no it doesn't. If even one of the MMGWC predictions had come to pass there would be proof .

2) wrong . Ever heard of saturation point. To see any significant change from co2 effects we will need to be at least 800 ppm.

3) I fully agree we should not be doing anything about the climate . We should pick a couple of items and concentrate on them ( such as industrial discharging of microplastics )

4 ) if others wouldn't post falsehoods I would not be posting corrected information . (See number 1 above. )
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:46   #1692
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Re: Science & Technology News

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3)... We should pick a couple of items and concentrate on them ( such as industrial discharging of microplastics )
Microplastics come from plastics which are made from...oil. Our modern overconsumption/pollution habits are responsible for just about all of the human insults to the planet, and are highly interlinked.

But you've come up with the perfect scheme for avoiding doing anything. You don't believe in doing anything about climate change... so no action to be taken there. So now we just need to find someone who doesn't believe that microplastics are a problem... and then we don't need to do anything about that either! It's brilliant.
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:53   #1693
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Re: Science & Technology News

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This from the fellow who hears the vast majority of actual experts in the field say one thing, and you say: "Nah... you're all wrong. I, the Internet expert, know better."


That's the exact opposite of what I wrote.
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Old 09-06-2021, 13:01   #1694
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Re: Science & Technology News

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No deflection at all. It's just the facts. Hyperbolically speaking, if you want to believe the world is ending and finger waggle and blame the fossil fuel extractors and claim the government must "do something" in between bouts of salivating over the brochures for your next SUV purchase then that, like it or lump it, makes you a hypocrite.
That 'logic' might have worked if we were both 8. I'm not.

Is there a problem with our present rates of consumption of fossil fuels, or not? If you think there isn't, well, thanks for playing. If you do acknowledge that there's a problem, then you likely know already that it's not going to be solved by individual voluntary actions.
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Old 09-06-2021, 13:03   #1695
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Re: Science & Technology News

Here's How Scarily Accurate NASA's Long-Term Climate Predictions Have Been So Far
In this new study [1], NASA scientists analyzed the GISTEMP data to see if past predictions of rising temperatures were accurate. They needed to know that any uncertainty within their data was correctly accounted for.
The goal was to make sure that the models they use are robust enough to rely on in the future. The answer: Yes they are. Within 1/20th a degree Celsius. Kudos.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-s-...th-of-a-degree

Early climate models were right – at least, for the most part
The majority of climate models published between the early 1970s and late 2000s were remarkably accurate, according to a systematic review published on 4 December in Geophysical Research Letters [1]
https://www.europeanscientist.com/en...the-most-part/

Study Confirms Climate Models are Getting Future Warming Projections Right
An evaluation [1] of global climate models, used to project Earth’s future global average surface temperatures, over the past half-century, says that most of the models have been quite accurate.
A team compared 17 increasingly sophisticated model projections of global average temperature, developed between 1970 and 2007, including some originally developed by NASA, with actual changes in global temperature, observed through the end of 2017. The observational temperature data came from multiple sources, including NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP) time series, an estimate of global surface temperature change.
The results: 10 of the model projections closely matched observations. Moreover, after accounting for differences between modeled and actual changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide and other factors that drive climate, the number increased to 14. The authors found no evidence that the climate models evaluated either systematically overestimated or underestimated warming over the period of their projections.
The authors say that while the relative simplicity of the models analyzed makes their climate projections functionally obsolete, they can still be useful for verifying methods used to evaluate current state-of-the-art climate models, such as those to be used in the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Sixth Assessment Report, to be released in 2022.
https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20200109/

The study:
[1] “Evaluating the Performance of Past Climate Model Projections” ~ by Zeke Hausfather et al
“... We find that climate models published over the past five decades were generally quite accurate in predicting global warming in the years after publication, particularly when accounting for differences between modeled and actual changes in atmospheric CO2 and other climate drivers. This research should help resolve public confusion around the performance of past climate modeling efforts and increases our confidence that models are accurately projecting global warming ...”
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....9/2019GL085378
Full text ➥ https://www.researchgate.net/publica...el_Projections
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