Science & Technology News

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by newhaul

https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling

"Unlike fossil fuels, which release harmful emissions into the atmosphere that are not recovered for reuse, materials in a Tesla lithium-ion battery are recoverable and recyclable. Battery materials are refined and put into a cell, and will still remain in the cell at the end of their life, when they can be recycled to recover its valuable materials for reuse over and over again.

Extending the life of a battery pack is a superior option to recycling for both environmental and business reasons. For those reasons, before decommissioning a consumer battery pack and sending it for recycling, Tesla does everything it can to extend the useful life of each battery pack. Any battery that is no longer meeting a customer’s needs can be serviced by Tesla at one of our service centers around the world. None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled.

Lithium-ion battery packs should only be handled by qualified professionals at specifically designated facilities. The applicable rules and regulations for battery management vary by region and must always be followed."


This is an ambiguous press statement and addresses the real issues in no meaningful way.

"None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled."

What is the efficiency rate of the recycling process? Put simply, if the total world production of Tesla vehicles was 100 cars, would their need for battery- building materials cease at the 100 car quantity? I think not.

So what is the percentage of new/recyclable materials to waste? If it is substantial where does that waste go? If not landfills, does the bipolar pharma industry take up the slack? Is Musk in cahoots with them, counting on the depression induced by 90% of the world not being able to drive his status machine, to soak up all that scrapped lithium?...

Hopefully, there is a plan. But I see no evidence for it so far.

And the past provides no encouragement.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

"Unlike fossil fuels, which release harmful emissions into the atmosphere that are not recovered for reuse, materials in a Tesla lithium-ion battery are recoverable and recyclable. Battery materials are refined and put into a cell, and will still remain in the cell at the end of their life, when they can be recycled to recover its valuable materials for reuse over and over again.

Extending the life of a battery pack is a superior option to recycling for both environmental and business reasons. For those reasons, before decommissioning a consumer battery pack and sending it for recycling, Tesla does everything it can to extend the useful life of each battery pack. Any battery that is no longer meeting a customer’s needs can be serviced by Tesla at one of our service centers around the world. None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled.

Lithium-ion battery packs should only be handled by qualified professionals at specifically designated facilities. The applicable rules and regulations for battery management vary by region and must always be followed."


This is an ambiguous press statement and addresses the real issues in no meaningful way.

"None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled."

What is the efficiency rate of the recycling process? Put simply, if the total world production of Tesla vehicles was 100 cars, would their need for battery- building materials cease at the 100 car quantity? I think not.

So what is the percentage of new/recyclable materials to waste? If it is substantial where does that waste go? If not landfills, does the bipolar pharma industry take up the slack? Is Musk in cahoots with them, counting on the depression induced by 90% of the world not being able to drive his status machine, to soak up all that scrapped lithium?...

Hopefully, there is a plan. But I see no evidence for it so far.

And the past provides no encouragement.

Dig a bit do at least some of your own research.
Google is your friend
Google scholar is a good friend.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Dig a bit do at least some of your own research.
Google is your friend
Google scholar is a good friend.

Originally Posted by newhaul

https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling

Indeed.
And, in this case, newhaul has been your friend [as have I].
If you won't do your own research, at least read that provided you, by others.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Indeed.
And, in this case, newhaul has been your friend [as have I].
If you won't do your own research, at least read that provided you, by others.

Please.

I did, although only an hour and a half, as previously noted, plus what I spent chasing down these blind alleys, and reading the marketing fluff advised by Newhaul.

Recycling Laws By State [US] ➥ https://www.call2recycle.org/recycling-laws-by-state/
Including Louisiana ➥ https://www.call2recycle.org/recycli...ate/#Louisiana

Provincial Recycling Regulations [CA] ➥ https://www.call2recycle.ca/provinci...g-regulations/

Laws, Regulations and Best Practices for Lithium Battery Packaging, Transport and Recycling in the United States and Canada
➥ https://naatbatt.org/lithium-recycling-laws/ alleys.

Where did you think I came up with this say-nothing disclaimer?

"Unlike fossil fuels, which release harmful emissions into the atmosphere that are not recovered for reuse, materials in a Tesla lithium-ion battery are recoverable and recyclable. Battery materials are refined and put into a cell, and will still remain in the cell at the end of their life, when they can be recycled to recover its valuable materials for reuse over and over again.

Extending the life of a battery pack is a superior option to recycling for both environmental and business reasons. For those reasons, before decommissioning a consumer battery pack and sending it for recycling, Tesla does everything it can to extend the useful life of each battery pack. Any battery that is no longer meeting a customer’s needs can be serviced by Tesla at one of our service centers around the world. None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled.

Lithium-ion battery packs should only be handled by qualified professionals at specifically designated facilities. The applicable rules and regulations for battery management vary by region and must always be followed."

It is a direct copy from Tesla's website, as directed to by Newhaul, and is Madison Avenue hyperbole.


Again, I looked for any indication that manufacturers or politicians had any plans whatsoever, and found none. Since you guys, at least to me, seemed to make the claim that there were, it's on y'all to show the proof, or as you say 'do the research'. So far, no one has.

So, once again, I will, and it's as easy as typing in "us political plans for dealing with used up EV vehicle batteries".

Turns out, as suspected, there isn't. At least if one uses the logic, 'Why would the current administration propose legislation for a solution to a problem when that legislation is already in place?"

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...sh-2021-06-04/

And, again as expected, the proposed solution appears to be backwards, because there is no indication that the manufacturers are being held responsible at the front end. Though that tiny article has so many 'possibilities' whatever pans out will bear little to no resemblance to the details listed. What is pretty clear is that the coming problem well be handled as yet another money-making 'opportunity'; instead of holding the 'infinite-earth' dreamers responsible for the damages they've caused, and will acceleratingly cause in the near future, these 'captains of industry' are given carte blanche, like being given the keys to a megayacht just after they've killed the mayors daughter while showing off in a skiboat.

[newhaul]

Abstract

Rapid growth in the market for electric vehicles is imperative, to meet global targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, to improve air quality in urban centres and to meet the needs of consumers, with whom electric vehicles are increasingly popular. However, growing numbers of electric vehicles present a serious waste-management challenge for recyclers at end-of-life. Nevertheless, spent batteries may also present an opportunity as manufacturers require access to strategic elements and critical materials for key components in electric-vehicle manufacture: recycled lithium-ion batteries from electric vehicles could provide a valuable secondary source of materials. Here we outline and evaluate the current range of approaches to electric-vehicle lithium-ion battery recycling and re-use, and highlight areas for future progress.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5

[GordMay]

Electric vehicle battery recycling presents some unique engineering and economic challenges.

Electric-drive vehicles are relatively new to the U.S. auto market, so only a small number of them have approached the end of their useful lives. As a result, few post-consumer batteries from electric-drive vehicles are available, thus limiting the extent of battery-recycling infrastructure. As electric-drive vehicles become increasingly common [industry analysts predict at least 145 million EVs will be on the road by 2030, up from just 11 million last year], the battery-recycling technology, and market, will develop, and expand.

Governments are inching toward requiring some level of recycling.
In 2018, China imposed new rules aimed at promoting the reuse of EV battery components.
The European Union is expected to finalize its first requirements this year.
In the United States, the federal government has yet to advance recycling mandates, but several states, including California, the nation’s largest car market, are exploring setting their own rules.

To accelerate recycling, governments and industry are putting money into an array of research initiatives.
The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has pumped some $15 million into a ReCell Center to coordinate studies by scientists in academia, industry, and at government laboratories.
The United Kingdom has backed the ReLiB project, a multi-institution effort.

[newhaul]

https://m.theepochtimes.com/challeng...g_3950089.html

Here is the link to the pdf file
http://www.raa-journal.org/raa/index...load/4920/6080

https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.12126

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...sh-2021-06-04/

And, again as expected, the proposed solution appears to be backwards, because there is no indication that the manufacturers are being held responsible at the front end.

Hi Jim. I'm convinced that, first of all, EV technology is and will be less harmful overall to the planet. I'm also fairly optimistic that battery technology is on a good trajectory. Already, lithium-ion batteries are at a commodity level (the 18650 cell), and these cells can be found everywhere from EV batteries to a pocket flashlight. So this gives me confidence that there will be many secondary markets for good cells pulled from retired EV batteries (for example - use in boats! ). The surplus channels have already been reselling useable rechargeables from laptop computers for years. So many portable devices now run or charge from USB jacks, which means a big market for those pocket-sized LiIon battery banks.

Should government be more restrictive at this stage? As mentioned, we in Canada have some legislation and surcharges to encourage recycling or at least responsible collection which could in future feed recycling. But it's arguable that the EV technology landscape isn't mature enough to be rigidly constrained by government. It's still "carrot" time for battery technology; we can show more stick as the new technologies and industries develop. And I believe that economics will be the strongest argument for recycling vs more mining.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by newhaul

https://m.theepochtimes.com/challeng...g_3950089.html

The Epoch Times is utter, evil garbage. The Pravda of the global far-right. Avoid, even if they seem to agree with something you believe in.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The Epoch Times is utter, evil garbage. The Pravda of the global far-right. Avoid, even if they seem to agree with something you believe in.

At least read the article and associated linked studies and debates. Epoch is the messenger not the message

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by newhaul

At least read the article and associated linked studies and debates. Epoch is the messenger not the message

Links maybe... but they've already been tainted by their association with THAT messenger. And it calls your judgement into question. just sayin'


A quote from the second link:

Nonetheless, all five estimates confirm that it is currently warmer than the late 19th century, i.e., there has been some “global warming” since the 19th century.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Links maybe... but they've already been tainted by their association with THAT messenger. And it calls your judgement into question. just sayin'


A quote from the second link:

And what was the cause that the scientists determined warmed the planet?

Correct not anthropogenic.
( remember I told everyone we are just coming out of a grand maximum that peaked in the 1957 at the maximum of cycle 19. )

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Links maybe... but they've already been tainted by their association with THAT messenger. And it calls your judgement into question. just sayin'


A quote from the second link:

Or perhaps it is one of the few that are not part of the ministry of truth.

[newhaul]

This article shows a new electric option for smaller boats and is imo worth keeping an eye on .

https://electrek.co/2021/08/19/cande...-lifetime/amp/

Candela claims that these are the highest-efficiency and longest-lasting boat motors ever.

The company’s patented C-Pod consists of two electric motors. Each drives a counterrotating propeller to provide a combined power of 50 kW (67 hp) per pod.

That high power comes despite the drive pod having an ultra-compact, torpedo-shaped design and weighing just 50 kg (110 lb).

https://candela.com/technology/

Battery: 40 kWh lithium ion NMC battery pack (from BMWi3).
Motor: 70 kW for take off, 16 kW in 23 knots, 37 kW full speed.

It appears ( via digging ) that it is most likely 48v ( the BMWi3 uses 48 volt packs . )
Real light on specs for now.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

This article shows a new electric option for smaller boats and is imo worth keeping an eye on .

https://electrek.co/2021/08/19/cande...-lifetime/amp/

Candela claims that these are the highest-efficiency and longest-lasting boat motors ever.

The company’s patented C-Pod consists of two electric motors. Each drives a counterrotating propeller to provide a combined power of 50 kW (67 hp) per pod.

That high power comes despite the drive pod having an ultra-compact, torpedo-shaped design and weighing just 50 kg (110 lb).

https://candela.com/technology/

Battery: 40 kWh lithium ion NMC battery pack (from BMWi3).
Motor: 70 kW for take off, 16 kW in 23 knots, 37 kW full speed.

It appears ( via digging ) that it is most likely 48v ( the BMWi3 uses 48 volt packs . )
Real light on specs for now.

Looks like GeeWhiz tech and marketing hype. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

The motors may be the most efficient ever but the props aren't. Might be good for a planing power boat but for the main drive on a displacement vessel large diameter props are more efficient.