Sailing with Sunsail Offshore

[PatrickG]

Thanks Sailagain! I'm not sure how the cruise industry works, as I've never taken a cruise on a cruise ship before. But I have taken RYA practical courses and then it was a deposit up front and full payment at a later date - something like a month out from the event. And that seemed to work out fine.

Other models? The airline industry does take full payment up front, but generally don't cancel flat out (ie no alternative flight around the same time) unless they go bankrupt or there's a major strike or such. Hotels - full payment only for cancelation less than 24 hours in advance. Can't imagine that could work in this sort of case though - like you say too many would just no-show. Wonder how the hotels get by with that actually.

In this case I can understand it was more of an investment for Sunsail - organizing a 'regatta' - at least there must have been some additional organization beyond what a normal voyage would have entailed - and one can guess they were looking to gain as much security as possible that it would float financially (excuse the very poor pun!

One frustration is that one knows that what you write is all too true: had the regatta taken place and one of the participants not shown up, that would have been too bad for the participant - they would have lost their entire fee - a 100% penalty.

In this case the organizer bails out with very short notice, and of course there is no penalty whatsoever. As atoll says "as normal the little guy gets screwed in the corporate world."

At the time of cancelation they made no offer of any discount or other such salve. Only later (higher in this thread) did they offer a 10% discount. That's nice enough (they only want to earn a 20% profit this time ) but I think I'll save my commerce for companies that don't promise what they're not at all sure they can deliver.

Well - I've taken up way too much of everyone's time whinging about a very minor hiccup in the grand scheme of things. Soon it's back to sailing which is what it's all about. Thanks for listening, guys - has been a heap of therapy today if nothing else and much appreciated with your informed feedback!!

[deckofficer]

Patrick,

The entire thread was an interesting read, so you didn't waste anyone's time. I have a question concerning RYA Yachmaster? Is this a club rating of some sort that you need 2500 open ocean miles? Also, sailing as crew on any vessel and paying for it just seems a bit odd to me. On this forum, Lat 38, and many other gathering points for sailors, there is always a need for crew because most of us are not too fond of the 20 minute cat naps on those multi day/week/month passages if no crew is available. Would this count towards your RYA Yachmaster ? On a different note, do you have your HAM radio license?

[PatrickG]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Patrick,

The entire thread was an interesting read, so you didn't waste anyone's time. I have a question concerning RYA Yachmaster? Is this a club rating of some sort that you need 2500 open ocean miles? Also, sailing as crew on any vessel and paying for it just seems a bit odd to me. On this forum, Lat 38, and many other gathering points for sailors, there is always a need for crew because most of us are not too fond of the 20 minute cat naps on those multi day/week/month passages if no crew is available. Would this count towards your RYA Yachmaster ? On a different note, do you have your HAM radio license?

Hi Deckofficer, and thanks for the message and the comments - glad someone found this of use! As far as the RYA program, that's the Royal Yachting Association out of the UK, and they have a good program for learning sailing skills that ends with a qualification called Yachtmaster Ocean (with several more between beginner and that). Yachtmaster Ocean even includes celestial navigation. More about the RYA and Yachtmaster scheme here:

Sail cruising | Courses | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA

You can take many of the theory courses as distance courses. But the practicals have to be with a RYA instructor at certain bases around the world - but sometimes you can find them wandering about. It's really a solid program but it sounds from your post like you might have those skills already!

As far as the 2500 miles that's a requirement to qualify for Yachtmaster Offshore, the next one down the line. 2500 total nm of experience, at least half of it in tidal water - with requirements for a number of different types of passages (can't quite remember which). But they don't have to be open ocean miles.

My challenge is trying to acquire decent open ocean experience with a heavy full-time job and three kids - even getting three weeks away is a monumental puzzle - especially during what is normally not a vacation time. I agree it would be better to just crew, but finding those opportunities has proved to be too unpredictable for the kinds of windows I have open. Hence paying for more bookable, scheduled chances instead. I think it's fairly common over here in Europe - at least there are a number of training companies that make there business out of that. But it's something I only hope to be doing in the short run

When it comes to the radio, I only have a VHF short range certificate I'm afraid!

[deckofficer]

Patrick,

Sounds like some comprehensive programs, the Brits never do anything half way. I have to be honest, I have not used celestial navigation since my academy days even though we always have a sextant and sight reduction books aboard the commercial ships. Before the Internet, HAM radio was very popular with cruisers even though back then you had to be able to send and copy code at 13 wpm. Today I think you can get your General without code, change in the rules to probably keep HAM radio alive. I'm in a holding pattern right now, taking care of my 92 year old dad, but from '95~'02 racked up 1278 days at sea.

[PatrickG]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Patrick,

Sounds like some comprehensive programs, the Brits never do anything half way. I have to be honest, I have not used celestial navigation since my academy days even though we always have a sextant and sight reduction books aboard the commercial ships. Before the Internet, HAM radio was very popular with cruisers even though back then you had to be able to send and copy code at 13 wpm. Today I think you can get your General without code, change in the rules to probably keep HAM radio alive. I'm in a holding pattern right now, taking care of my 92 year old dad, but from '95~'02 racked up 1278 days at sea.

Wow, and here I am trying to figure out how to get 22 days at sea. That sounds like a lot of fun! Nice to meet you Deckofficer

[nigel1]

Just wondering if Sunsails decision to cancel on the grounds of saftey had anything to do with the recent events concerning another UK sailing school - Hot Liquid.
This company has had two MAIB investgations in the recent months, and then over the new year, took a group of relatively novice sailors on a trip from the Solent to London, into a forecasted Force 10, Force 11.
The outcome was I think 4 of the crew being lifted off by a SAR helicopter, and two lifeboats launched to assist the yacht into port.
The MAIB announced it was going to set up another inquiry into the event.
At the end of January, the RYA withdrew its recognition of the sailing school.
So, I would think that the MAIB and the RYA will be looking very closely at sail school activities, and that the sail schools will be doubly cafeful

[PatrickG]

Originally Posted by nigel1

Just wondering if Sunsails decision to cancel on the grounds of saftey had anything to do with the recent events concerning another UK sailing school - Hot Liquid.
This company has had two MAIB investgations in the recent months, and then over the new year, took a group of relatively novice sailors on a trip from the Solent to London, into a forecasted Force 10, Force 11.
The outcome was I think 4 of the crew being lifted off by a SAR helicopter, and two lifeboats launched to assist the yacht into port.
The MAIB announced it was going to set up another inquiry into the event.
At the end of January, the RYA withdrew its recognition of the sailing school.
So, I would think that the MAIB and the RYA will be looking very closely at sail school activities, and that the sail schools will be doubly cafeful

Could be Nigel, but as I understand it Sunsail isn't primarily a school but a charter company - and this wasn't a school event, it was a regatta organized to get their charter race fleet back from the Canaries to the Solent - so there was no RYA aspect too it (I was just intending to use it to gain more experience and miles). But something like that has maybe given everyone pause in any case. It must be an extremely tough balancing act for the schools - inexperienced people are coming to them to gain experience in rough conditions, so they need to go out in bad weather. But it's a fine balance between a tough but great learning experience and a dangerous situation or near tragedy. F11 sounds nuts!