Sailboaters just don't understand powerboaters

[gonesail]

i had a small powerboat once .. a mako. at first it was fun going fast. but then I found out that was all there was .. to go fast. and to make a lot of noise doing it. not really my cup of tea

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by wmcunninghamii

I just finished a four day anchor out on the extremely hot California Delta. I have a little 30 footer with an icebox and a decent 12 VDC electrical system and two fans, but that's it. I had a blast. When I get hot, jump in the water, have a beer, repeat.

The trick is to make absolutely sure you have enough Ice. I start the day before I leave and then add bags until everything is cold and the box is hard to close by the time I depart. My neighbors must think I am nuts but they have never stared into the dark hole that is icelessness as that final small sliver of ice melts, it seems like the end of the world, probably worse.

You mean.... you mean your ice maker isn't keeping up? Oh, the HUMANITY!!!

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

So what about the sailors who motor while flying their “right of way sails”? It’s not at all uncommon to see sailboats in dead calms or heading directly into the wind with a token sail raised to give them precedence over other boaters. And it is also not uncommon for these “sailors” to use their “right of way sails” as a club to beat on other boaters as well. Where does this behavior fit on the considerate/inconsiderate scale? It is also very common behavior from what we have seen and by definition is confined to sailboats only, there is no powerboat equivalent.

If the engine is in use, doesn't matter how many sails are up. It is a power driven vessel, under the Rules. If it is slick calm and he is making 5kts obviously an engine is in use.

[Dani-lu]

I do sail, and love it. But I am a power boater and yes I own a dreaded Sea Ray. But, I am a boater, and I love the ocean way more than inland boating, but my 300 gals of fuel limits my time in the ocean, but I have slowed down and done many overnight crossings, heading south and north on the east coast.

When it comes to power boaters, unfortunately the only thing you need is money to buy the boat. And many don’t understand it is not a car and ruin other boaters days. Sail boats are different. Unless you are only gonna motor along at 5kts, you need to gain the necessary knowledge and skills to safely enjoy sailing.

But, while there are more knowledge-less, untrained power boaters on the water, there are also many green sailboaters and sailboaters with a chip on their shoulder.

For example I have piloted my boat from NY to Florida and back a few times. 1,000 miles each way. I find most boaters on the ICW to be courteous and somewhat knowledgeable. But, my one pet peeve is the proper way do a slow pass around a sail boat. There have been many times I have radioed a sail boat by name on 16 and the proper bridge hailing channel to get no response. I then try to catch up to the sail boat either ignoring me or not monitoring their VHF. I try to make eye contact to be met with angry eyes, or they just stare straight ahead not realizing I want to make a slow pass, or once again maybe ignoring me. I understand it may get old being passed all day by power boats, but like sailors, I have charted my course for the day, including multiple bail outs if I have boat issues, but my course is not based on 5 kts, rather 10 to 15kts, understanding the timing of bridge openings and other expected and unexpected delays.

Then even when I make contact with some sail boats, they don’t slow down for the slow pass, allowing me to pass and then steer in front of them ensuring no wake for them.

Again most folks are courteous and appreciate and understand their part in a slow pass.

I assume the answer may be, like some power boaters, there are also sailors that don’t have a clue!

[rslifkin]

From my power boating perspective, if a slow pass can't be appropriately negotiated and I'm running up on plane, I just trim the boat down flatter than best speed to reduce my wake as much as possible and pass with as much distance as the situation allows. Reducing the wake further than I can manage by trimming down all the way requires getting down to 7 kts or less. Of course, this all varies based on the boat, how much trim authority it has, hull design, etc.

[Chotu]

With the slow pass, I think if the sailboat (motoring) in the icw doesn’t respond and doesn’t slow down, it’s your right to just blast by at whatever speed is comfortable for your boat.

When I had smaller boats I used to participate in the slow pass routine slowing down.

With my catamaran that is unaffected by wakes and does 8 knots under power, I just let em blast by. No problems on my end. Although I do cause some confusion sometimes I think.

One time on the radio an 80 or 100 foot sport fish was going by. They were very concerned about going by me at any speed, and I just said for them to go. Barely rocked my boat at all. They were like, it’s your choice. LOL. I said go for it.

So some of that stuff depends on what boat you are passing I think. A boat like my 50 foot catamaran is not susceptible to wakes at all. Any boat can blast by me at high-speed and it just doesn’t do anything.

So for that reason, I don’t really participate in the slow pass anymore.

Originally Posted by Dani-lu

I do sail, and love it. But I am a power boater and yes I own a dreaded Sea Ray. But, I am a boater, and I love the ocean way more than inland boating, but my 300 gals of fuel limits my time in the ocean, but I have slowed down and done many overnight crossings, heading south and north on the east coast.

When it comes to power boaters, unfortunately the only thing you need is money to buy the boat. And many don’t understand it is not a car and ruin other boaters days. Sail boats are different. Unless you are only gonna motor along at 5kts, you need to gain the necessary knowledge and skills to safely enjoy sailing.

But, while there are more knowledge-less, untrained power boaters on the water, there are also many green sailboaters and sailboaters with a chip on their shoulder.

For example I have piloted my boat from NY to Florida and back a few times. 1,000 miles each way. I find most boaters on the ICW to be courteous and somewhat knowledgeable. But, my one pet peeve is the proper way do a slow pass around a sail boat. There have been many times I have radioed a sail boat by name on 16 and the proper bridge hailing channel to get no response. I then try to catch up to the sail boat either ignoring me or not monitoring their VHF. I try to make eye contact to be met with angry eyes, or they just stare straight ahead not realizing I want to make a slow pass, or once again maybe ignoring me. I understand it may get old being passed all day by power boats, but like sailors, I have charted my course for the day, including multiple bail outs if I have boat issues, but my course is not based on 5 kts, rather 10 to 15kts, understanding the timing of bridge openings and other expected and unexpected delays.

Then even when I make contact with some sail boats, they don’t slow down for the slow pass, allowing me to pass and then steer in front of them ensuring no wake for them.

Again most folks are courteous and appreciate and understand their part in a slow pass.

I assume the answer may be, like some power boaters, there are also sailors that don’t have a clue!

[markpierce]

Most sailboats have/monitor VHF radios? Does not appear to be so. Personally sail-boated 15 nears without a radio.

Sailboats often sail erratic courses, like wind shifts, inattention, whatever. Sometimes they ruin their apparent authority. Hate it when a sailboat tacks close by with intercepting course without apparent reason. Perhaps to get a close-by look at my boat.

Power boaters I'm familiar with are responsible and knowledgeable, and I have experienced "rude" powerboat behaviors from others. Still, my boat speed is similar to most single-hull sailboats, and I'm sometimes rudely waked by some Searays and such. That's part of the adventure.

Why do some powerboat designs make wakes as large as 100-foot tugboats can make?

[Dani-lu]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Why do some powerboat designs make wakes as large as 100-foot tugboats can make?

To piss off mono-hull sail boaters😀

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dani-lu

... most folks are courteous and appreciate and understand their part in a slow pass.

For those of us who might not get to experience the ICW this time around, would someone quickly sum up the elements of a successful slow pass? I sort of get it, but hearing a veteran describe it would be very helpful. Thanks.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

For those of us who might not get to experience the ICW this time around, would someone quickly sum up the elements of a successful slow pass? I sort of get it, but hearing a veteran describe it would be very helpful. Thanks.

Yeah, What the heck is a "Slow Pass"?

[fgd3]

When you see you are going to be passed slow down to idle speed. That allows the overtaking vessel to slow to a minimum wake speed and slide past you with little commotion. Once the overtaking vessel has passed both vessels can resume their prior operating speeds without either being bothered by a large wake.

[markpierce]

Depending on wind direction and speed, sailboats can find it difficult to slow their speed for a simple pass. They will just have to bear the wake when a boat slowly passes.

[TheLuckyone]

Originally Posted by Chotu

With the slow pass, I think if the sailboat (motoring) in the icw doesn’t respond and doesn’t slow down, it’s your right to just blast by at whatever speed is comfortable for your boat...

Aww... I'm a newb, and even I know you're responsible for your own wake. It ain't about what speed is comfortable for your boat, it's the speed & trim configuration that minimizes your wake. There's been times when I'd prefer having a large powerboat trim down and keep the speed up a bit, since that keeps the wake down... instead, they slow down to a crawl, the stern wallows in, and now their wake is much larger than it would've been otherwise.

Originally Posted by wingssail

Yeah, What the heck is a "Slow Pass"?

Saw this via Google. Haven't done one, but it makes sense: https://neusesail.wildapricot.org/The-Slow-Pass

I'm based on the Erie Canal, which provides for lots of opportunity to learn about restricted maneuvering, no wake zones, and dealing with traffic. I'm also "sailing" a Westerly Centaur... really, it's motoring about, since height restrictions in either direction prevent me from raising the mast 'til I hit the Hudson, south of Albany. I'm usually doing about 3 and a half knots, watching as the faster and bigger powerboats go flying past me. There's only been a time or two when the wakes have been really bad, but I treat them the same as I've done in my kayak: try to keep to starboard as the traffic passes me, keeping a close eye on that depth finder; I'll keep a parallel course as best as possible 'til the wake is close (and by then, I can tell if it'll be a big one), and that Centaur has a big ol' barn door of a rudder, so I can wait 'til it's fairly close; and then I'll kick the tiller over so I'm hitting the wake at least 45 degrees on. Anyone in the cabin gets a warning to get near the table/galley (right 'tween those big twin keels) and a second warning when I'm making my turn. Everybody else stays in the cockpit with me, not on the bow.

My dirty little secret? I get a kick out of the big wakes as long as I've got everything secured in the cabin. Watching the knuckles in the bow throw spray off to either side instead of coming up over the boat is kinda purty, and that Centaur seems to buck and kick a little as she takes the next one on. Bit like a old retired racin' horse who's feeling their oats on a good day.

[wingssail]

I really don't buy into the the concept that there are differences between power boaters and sailors, or people who wash their boats and people who don't. I really don't see the point of hating a guy who is proud of his boat and likes nothing better than washing and waxing it so it stays perfect. I wish mine was like that. Honestly, I do. But that's not me.

I started out as a powerboater. Spent quite a few years thinking that any cruiser that couldn't go 50kts wasn't worth having. Then I got into sailing, just to see what the other side was doing, what they saw in it.

I still love power boats. But I love sailing more, so that's it for me.

But it seems like people are people and whether they own a powerboat or a sailboat doesn't matter. It's not the boat, it's the person they are that matters. It doesn't matter if they are OCD or slobs. They can still be good people. I've met folks of both ilk who were jerks, but lots more who were good people.

But me, I'm sort of in the middle. The guy next to me keeps his boat immaculate. I try but my boat is not perfect. But we're still friends. He doesn't look down on my tatty canvas and I don't hate him because he's perfect.

Live and let live.

On the water, courtesy wins every time. Around here there are a lot of captains without much rules knowledge or training. Mostly they are powerboaters because the sailors here got here by cruising quite a few offshore miles, and they usually have picked up some knowledge along the way. The oblivious ones just don't know that they are supposed to avoid a sailboat under sail. I've had to avoid them a time or two and they just give you a dumb look as they fly by. I think it's ignorance, not malice. I truly believe that if one of these guys pulled into the marina next to me and I walked over to his boat and offered a beer and then had a friendly chat that most of them would apologize and say they didn't know. I don't hate them for it.

As far as motoring with the main sail up. I do it. Usually if the wind dies when we're sailing I drop the jib and start the motor. Sometimes I go all the way to my destination with the mainsail still up. But I don't expect anyone to yield to me because I am "sailing" and I make my intentions clear.

I don't have much experience with the ICW and I really do think that the big fast power boats who speed past... Well I don't know. Maybe we need a speed limit.

[mvweebles]

What is proper wake-etiquette in a relatively crowded channel with no speed restrictions? I'm thinking places like ICW, Sacramento Delta, or portions of The Loop near urban centers.

Not just sailors, but do kayakers, fishermen, anchored vessels, and other wake-effected craft have a reasonable expectation that a boat will pass at slow-bells when they are in an unrestricted speed area, especially crowded places like the ICW on a nice weekend?

I have a displacement trawler that wouldn't do 9 kts with a pair of Pratt & Whitney's bolted to her deck so am akin to sailors. I figure when I'm in an unrestricted area, I have no expectation of anything from a passing powerboat beyond keeping a distance where possible. But it sounds like a lot of slow boat owners expect power boats to slow to minimum wake.

What is proper etiquette in confined area without speed restriction?

Peter