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Old 27-11-2018, 15:45   #16
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

Thanks for all the response, I think I will go for the nickel double trigger, I know there are companies deal with parkerization here but I'm not sure if they are licensed to deal with firearms, besides I read that nickel can be more durable than parkerized finish, so it is a safer bet.


I am under the impression that good double guns are very expensive and I am only eligible for one gun for my license, so might as well as get a good one.
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Old 27-11-2018, 15:51   #17
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

I don't know where you are and therefore what laws you are "theoretically" constrained by......but....have you considered that a shotgun may be the wrong tool.
By the time a shotgun is of any use, your subject matter is altogether too close.
A stainless mini 14 (ruger) is an extremely persuasive tool, in both close quarters and out a fair distance.
Just a thought.
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Old 27-11-2018, 15:59   #18
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

Good double barrels can be / are exceedingly expensive, and you donít want one on a boat. Way to much money to ruin or lose.
However there are many inexpensive well built guns, they just donít have the pedigree and exceptional wood and inlaid gold and hand tooled etc. however they fire and pattern just as well as a gun that cost as much as a good luxury car.
Itís the inner workings of a gun that your most concerned with and that is going to be mild steel.
However with minimal care it really shouldnít be an issue
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Old 27-11-2018, 16:11   #19
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

A shotgun is about the best I could to get a license for protection, a rifle can be difficult let alone a semi-auto one.
I am also under impression that a shotgun is more reliable in marine environment, easier to shoot under stress and not so stable environment, it is also more versatile.

I hope I'll never have to use it, I believe in most cases a warning shot is enough.
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Old 27-11-2018, 16:27   #20
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wckoek View Post
Thanks for all the response, I think I will go for the nickel double trigger, I know there are companies deal with parkerization here but I'm not sure if they are licensed to deal with firearms, besides I read that nickel can be more durable than parkerized finish, so it is a safer bet.


I am under the impression that good double guns are very expensive and I am only eligible for one gun for my license, so might as well as get a good one.
Boito are not good quality in my opinion. We were service agents for them and they were I think the worst made firearms to come into our shop. Boito and one other were our bread and butter work which kept the apprentices busy. I have been out of it for a while so things might be different now but I doubt it.

I was joking about making one (well sort of, it would be a fun job) but if you can find a true gunsmith local-ish to you (not a repair shop there are 100's of those to the one shop that also makes custom firearms) they might take you on, but as you know it will be expensive.

If your serious about good quality and talking to a shop
Ask to see samples of their work and check the proof markings are indeed theirs. If they are serious gunsmiths they will also have a test gun with moveable parts of the stock and they will take you out to a range and adjust the stock to suit you then use the measurements from it to make yours.

If you want to go to the next level you can look at companies like this - https://www.purdey.com/guns-rifles I had the pleasure of working on some of their firearms, absolutely beautiful beyond belief, it restores your faith in true quality workmanship. We used to hand grind tools and drivers to be a push-in fit for screws before we even thought about turning a screw and machined bronze drifts for pins.

They also take expensive to the next level.
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Old 27-11-2018, 16:39   #21
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

The Canadian rangers (our arctic reserve force) has used the Lee Enfield #4 mk1 for as long as they have existed. They only just recently stepped to a newer rifle due to difficulty in obtaining .303 British ammo in large enough quantities

Perhaps one of them is worth considering. As they are a very proven platform in harsh conditions

I assume you need for polar bear or grizzly bears?

If so I would not want less than four shells in the gun one 000 buck followed by 3, 1 1/4 oz slugs
or at least ensure that you have ejectors and not extractors
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Old 27-11-2018, 21:05   #22
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

I feel your pain. I lived in Belize for a number of years, out in the bush, sort of, along the Freetown-Sibun road. I wanted a reliable firearm for personal protection and dangerous animal / varmint control and also subsistence hunting. Tried to get license for my stainless mini-14. The police inspector I spoke with was absolutely horrified at the thought. Okay then, a shorter range piece. How about one of my 45ACP's? The room got icey cold. Militarily useful cartridge! Even though I checked and the BDF did not have a single firearm in their inventory chambered for this venerable old cartridge. The choices suggested were bolt or single shot .22, pump 12, (difficult, long review process) double, or single shot shotgun. Most people backabush opt for a single, because the license is only $5/year. I figured the double with double triggers would be a single and a complete redundant backup. Bought an ancient single from a neighbor that relied on a coil of wire to hold the breech closed, and got me an old Stevens double the next trip back to the US. Licensing for it and 50 rounds was $10 and fairly hassle free. I would have preferred exposed hammers but in thick brush the hammerless design was much more snag resistant.



The gun did what it needed to do. There were a couple of never do well types living nearby and they had a superstitious dread of the double bore. Later I was told it was because it looked like two eyes watching. Put a lot of meat on the table, too.


Anyway if you are limited to two round capacity I suggest going all out redundant with a double 12ga, exposed hammers, double triggers. Practice with it a bit. You can get them with differrent chokes but I would prefer open tube both barrels. Load slug in one, #2 shot in the other, for versatility. Or smaller shot when hunting, depending on the game sought.


With a two shot limit, shotgun only, you want dependability above all else, and for those two shots it doesn't get any better than a double with two triggers. Practice selecting and firing one barrel or the other so you can choose and shoot without undue hesitation. Practice ejecting and reloading without fumbling. A shell holder on the stock or on your belt is a lot handier than spares in your pocket. You can also in a "situation" have your reload ready between index and middle finger for a tactical reload. Another good thing to practice. Some 12ga Snap Caps can be nice for practicing this.


Some experienced one on one, preferably professional, instruction is GOLD. And I hope you, like me, never need to actually shoot someone, and that you develop the skill of avoiding so much as possible, places where it is most likely to occur.



Last, don't point your gun at someone if you are not in a situation where you might well be forced to fire, and don't fire until you know you need to do so. Don't escalate a situation needlessly and find yourself in a third world prison for the rest of your life, or worse. Having a firearm presents some serious responsibilities and for some or many folks it simply is not worth it. Think about how you will secure it, as well as how you will use it and handle the legal stuff.


In some jurisdictions deadly force can be used to protect property. In some, not. Be aware of the law and how it might be interpreted or misinterpreted or how your actions might be misunderstood or your testimony taken out of context or used against you through legal trickery. And most importantly, whether you will feel right about shooting or even shooting at someone merely in defense of property. Most of us don't like that idea one bit. Defense of life is of course different. If the choice is to either die or risk prison, risking prison is by far the better choice, of course. Even in this, some people will refuse to injure or take a life to save their own. Noble, yes, but such a person dead, cannot safeguard his firearm, so it passes into the hands of presumably a criminal. What I am saying is go into this fully aware of all the ifs ands or buts, and know that for you it is the right thing to do. And if you do, practice, and seek professional training.


Hope I haven't violated any of the "hot topic" rules here. I just wanted to point out that in some places, gun laws are very restrictive and often a rifle or a semi or pump shotgun is not legally allowed. Pistols, neither.


I will also point out that being able to engage an enemy at 400 yards is usually not a useful thing on a boat. It is hard to verify hostile intent at outside shotgun range!!! So the rifle can be literally overkill. Just my opinion there, though I love rifles and look forward to requalifying with M-14 when my job requires it, and enjoy shooting my M1A clone of it. Semiauto and quite accurate to ranges where my no longer youthful eyes can't reliably distinguish between man size targets in less than ideal conditions. But it doesn't belong on my boat. Just something more to steal. My boat gun where allowed is always a pistol. Otherwise a shotgun. A mini-14 is a fun little rifle and a decent shooter but again, my opinion only, has no place on a boat for defense. The bad guys don't shoot until they have to, or conditions are optimum. They will not give you an opportunity to engage in a long range rifle duel. On the other hand, they don't care about gun laws so you may be outgunned, but hopefully not out trained.
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Old 28-11-2018, 10:21   #23
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

Thank you for your reply!
Having something is better than nothing, since you never know where you might need it and it is always better to show a bit of effort than to resign at the mercy of other.

A shotgun is also versatile for firing non lethal rounds and I heard there are flares made for them too.


The custom shotguns are very expensive from what I read, I hope the Boito now would be better than the kmart stuff I read they made long ago, I just don't know much made that is rust resistant, which would left maintenance and a thing less on my mind.


I will take all your advice.
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Old 18-12-2018, 21:34   #24
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

I was given a mossberg mariner that had lived on a boat for 10 years. Iím sure the owner didnít maintain it but the level pitting the receiver had left the weapon useless. You would have thought it had been kept underwater instead of in a humid boat. The barrels were in perfect shape, it was the Aluminium parts that degraded. Go figure.
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Old 19-12-2018, 05:38   #25
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wckoek View Post
The custom shotguns are very expensive from what I read, I hope the Boito now would be better than the kmart stuff I read they made long ago, I just don't know much made that is rust resistant, which would left maintenance and a thing less on my mind.

Sorry for late response; didn't see the topic, for whatever reason...

We've had a couple Armantino side-by-side double shotguns, used in competition. Both "hammerless," one 12-gauge and one 20-gauge. They're "OK" but then we worked over ours quite a bit to make them reliable enough for that particular sport. Note that there are some technical things that can make 20-gauge recoil sharper/more uncomfortable than 12-gauge recoil.

The single trigger 20-gauge model was the lesser reliable of the two, but had a nicer "swing." OTOH, the shorter 12-gauge model with 18" barrels was handier. OTOOH, the shorter barrels didn't make for an easy/controlled swing, as with trap shooting or similar; it was more like poking the barrels in the direction of the target... OTOOH the shorter barrels would likely be more easily managed within the context of boat cabins and so forth...

Nickel is only slightly more rust resistant than blued steel. It also reflects light much more. An inexpensive blued shotgun on a boat would likely be just about as good if just kept cleaned and oiled. At least I presume you won't have saltwater actually inside the cabin... And surface rust won't affect the way the gun works. Those particular models are cheap enough that you could just replace a completely rusted one every 10-15 years or so.

There are also some after-market rust preventive coatings you can apply yourself: Duraheat, Duracoat, etc. (see brownells.com, paint finishes or heat treating, etc.). Often you'd apply and then bake for a while at easy temps. An 18" barrel set may fit in a standard household oven... Or as someone mentioned, aftermarket rust-proofing (Robar has an excellent reputation) can be easier than you'd think. In the case of a double-barreled boat gun, you could likely just send the barrels for the application, and barrels by themselves tend to be easier to send/receive legally in many jurisdictions.

An alternative to Armantino could be to just shop used guns and look for any decent side-by-side shotgun brand, and models of that in good shape. (The side-by-side I use most often is now about 80-85 years old, and I've been using it for almost 60 of those years...) And that way you could also consider over-under models. Can't tell where you are, but maybe your legal system could also let you consider Drillings and Vierlings, although those are generally much more expensive.

With a more upscale model, you could get automatic ejectors, whereas in our competition those weren't allowed. In our case, we polished chambers -- and then selected just the right ammo -- to be able to violently "jerk" (?) the gun backwards/forwards so empties would fly out. In our circumstance, that worked OK... and many would be surprised how many rounds can go downrange quickly from a side-by-side that way (many of us can engage multiple targets almost as quickly as folks using a pump gun)... but for casual users, ejectors would be a nice touch. I don't think Armantino makes any coach guns (the short ones) with auto ejectors, but I do recollect some of their's have that feature. Many other brands/models can have auto ejectors.

-Chris
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Old 19-12-2018, 05:48   #26
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

Ive got a Mossberg single barrel. After 14 years in the tropics, mostly being neglected (I hate to admit), its still in very good condition...zero corrossion.

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/moss...action-shotgun
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Old 19-12-2018, 06:49   #27
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
I feel your pain. I lived in Belize for a number of years, out in the bush, sort of, along the Freetown-Sibun road. I wanted a reliable firearm for personal protection and dangerous animal / varmint control and also subsistence hunting. Tried to get license for my stainless mini-14. The police inspector I spoke with was absolutely horrified at the thought. Okay then, a shorter range piece. How about one of my 45ACP's? The room got icey cold. Militarily useful cartridge! Even though I checked and the BDF did not have a single firearm in their inventory chambered for this venerable old cartridge. The choices suggested were bolt or single shot .22, pump 12, (difficult, long review process) double, or single shot shotgun. Most people backabush opt for a single, because the license is only $5/year. I figured the double with double triggers would be a single and a complete redundant backup. Bought an ancient single from a neighbor that relied on a coil of wire to hold the breech closed, and got me an old Stevens double the next trip back to the US. Licensing for it and 50 rounds was $10 and fairly hassle free. I would have preferred exposed hammers but in thick brush the hammerless design was much more snag resistant.



The gun did what it needed to do. There were a couple of never do well types living nearby and they had a superstitious dread of the double bore. Later I was told it was because it looked like two eyes watching. Put a lot of meat on the table, too.


Anyway if you are limited to two round capacity I suggest going all out redundant with a double 12ga, exposed hammers, double triggers. Practice with it a bit. You can get them with differrent chokes but I would prefer open tube both barrels. Load slug in one, #2 shot in the other, for versatility. Or smaller shot when hunting, depending on the game sought.


With a two shot limit, shotgun only, you want dependability above all else, and for those two shots it doesn't get any better than a double with two triggers. Practice selecting and firing one barrel or the other so you can choose and shoot without undue hesitation. Practice ejecting and reloading without fumbling. A shell holder on the stock or on your belt is a lot handier than spares in your pocket. You can also in a "situation" have your reload ready between index and middle finger for a tactical reload. Another good thing to practice. Some 12ga Snap Caps can be nice for practicing this.


Some experienced one on one, preferably professional, instruction is GOLD. And I hope you, like me, never need to actually shoot someone, and that you develop the skill of avoiding so much as possible, places where it is most likely to occur.



Last, don't point your gun at someone if you are not in a situation where you might well be forced to fire, and don't fire until you know you need to do so. Don't escalate a situation needlessly and find yourself in a third world prison for the rest of your life, or worse. Having a firearm presents some serious responsibilities and for some or many folks it simply is not worth it. Think about how you will secure it, as well as how you will use it and handle the legal stuff.


In some jurisdictions deadly force can be used to protect property. In some, not. Be aware of the law and how it might be interpreted or misinterpreted or how your actions might be misunderstood or your testimony taken out of context or used against you through legal trickery. And most importantly, whether you will feel right about shooting or even shooting at someone merely in defense of property. Most of us don't like that idea one bit. Defense of life is of course different. If the choice is to either die or risk prison, risking prison is by far the better choice, of course. Even in this, some people will refuse to injure or take a life to save their own. Noble, yes, but such a person dead, cannot safeguard his firearm, so it passes into the hands of presumably a criminal. What I am saying is go into this fully aware of all the ifs ands or buts, and know that for you it is the right thing to do. And if you do, practice, and seek professional training.


Hope I haven't violated any of the "hot topic" rules here. I just wanted to point out that in some places, gun laws are very restrictive and often a rifle or a semi or pump shotgun is not legally allowed. Pistols, neither.


I will also point out that being able to engage an enemy at 400 yards is usually not a useful thing on a boat. It is hard to verify hostile intent at outside shotgun range!!! So the rifle can be literally overkill. Just my opinion there, though I love rifles and look forward to requalifying with M-14 when my job requires it, and enjoy shooting my M1A clone of it. Semiauto and quite accurate to ranges where my no longer youthful eyes can't reliably distinguish between man size targets in less than ideal conditions. But it doesn't belong on my boat. Just something more to steal. My boat gun where allowed is always a pistol. Otherwise a shotgun. A mini-14 is a fun little rifle and a decent shooter but again, my opinion only, has no place on a boat for defense. The bad guys don't shoot until they have to, or conditions are optimum. They will not give you an opportunity to engage in a long range rifle duel. On the other hand, they don't care about gun laws so you may be outgunned, but hopefully not out trained.
Ah, stories from backabush! Belize is one of those places that generates lots of stories. I accumulated a bunch when I lived there (Placencia). Looking back I find them amusing...I wasnt always so amused when they were happening!

Belizean officials are rather picky about firearms, but at least they allow those appropriate for hunting etc.

When I lived in Placencia a local gringo had a bunch of unregistered, military style, weapons. They confiscated them all and deported him.
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Old 19-12-2018, 06:58   #28
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

IIRC, Ruger made a "Red Label" (?) stainless steel O/U shotgun back when. Quite spendy at the time, but.........Might try to source used one via gunbroker, as I believe they might be out of pruduction.
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Old 19-12-2018, 13:14   #29
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Re: Rustproof double shotgun

WC-
Unless you are planning to take the shotgun out and shoot skeet every day (which used to be quite normal on the trans-atlantic ocean liners at least until the 1960's) you might not have to get quite so concerned.
First of all, you need to check you own national and local rules as to what "permanent" means with regard to reducing the capacity of a gun. In the US, "permanently" attaching things can sometimes require silver-soldering or welding of metal parts. For small items, simply epoxying in a wooden block will suffice. It depends on whose rules are being interpreted by who else--and that's an area that is easier to avoid, unless you can get an official letter saying "If you do this, it is sufficient."
But you can prevent a lot of rust simply by starting with a good finish, like Parkerizing, or Ceramacoat can be applied to any gun. Even with a chromed or stainless barrel, you can spray an oil compound on the metal parts and in the barrel, to protect it further. Or just swab it out with a good cleaner and bore protectant, that's just routine cleaning.
Then there are rust-protectant "socks" for the gun. Just like a meter-long cloth sock, but impregnated with chemicals that form a vapor and prevent rust on the contents. Inexpensive, thin, and in the worst case yes, you could fire the shotgun while it was still on. 3M rust protectant tabs are sold by gunsmiths and tool shops, and "moth balls" (naphthalene) work just as well--but you don't want to breath them.
The gold standard would probably be to take the shotgun and keep it stored in a Pelican case. They are 100% waterproof. Throw in some dessicant packages (inexpensive, re-useable) or go deluxe and throw in some oxygen-absorber packets (widely used in packaged foods) or handwarmer packets (they are also oxygen absorbers, just faster to generate heat) and then seal the case up.
A simple double-barrel with reasonable care can be protected from moisture and rust, easily if you are not using it every day. And if you are skeet shooting...(G)...well then, your daily cleaning should suffice, right?
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