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Old 08-08-2019, 14:45   #991
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
How come almost every study on co2 has dire and negative outcomes, the sky is falling, sorta thing, never does a study find a positive...
Perhaps, for the same reasons that astronomers, and others, overwhelmingly find that the earth revolves around the sun. Because that is what is.
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Old 08-08-2019, 14:49   #992
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

The Greenhouse Effect Explained:
Back in 2014/15(?), ExxonMobil released a report to shareholders, the same day as a dire forecast in a United Nations climate change study.
The company’s report acknowledges the need to adopt policies to address climate change. But it concludes that "governments are ‘highly unlikely’ to adopt policies that cut emissions ….”
And Exxon knows what they’re talking about, because they contribute $20 million annually to the American Petroleum Institute, which lobbies against climate change legislation.
You see, the government’s inaction increases Exxon’s share price.
Exxon then uses some of that money to influence politicians.
It’s a phenomenon called the ‘green House effect’. Also the ‘green Senate effect.’
They spread it around.
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Old 08-08-2019, 14:49   #993
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
CO2 Science, the Heartland funded Idso family website, has about the same reputation for misrepresenting science as NTZ.
perhaps you should review some of the thousands of scientific papers they host .

Then make a reasonable assessment of each and not just discount because the website has data that you don't like .

Dispute the science not the web host ..

Here I will give you an easy one .
CO2 Science
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Old 08-08-2019, 14:51   #994
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Perhaps, for the same reasons that astronomers, and others, overwhelmingly find that the earth revolves around the sun. Because that is what is.
they both rotate around the barycenter
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Old 08-08-2019, 14:55   #995
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
How come almost every study on co2 has dire and negative outcomes, the sky is falling, sorta thing, never does a study find a positive.


So say co2 causes 2c of heat, well great, extra farm land, more rain, more co2 faster growing crops, more inhabitable areas, maybe mitigate an ice age, etc etc..



It appears all the focus is on doom and gloom, why???


It appears great effort is being made to demonize co2 and its effects, from every possible angle, right down to the smell centers of a fish...


I smell a RAT.
Steven, if the desired outcome is that the masses keep on paying higher and higher prices for energy due to the use of so called renewables, and accept to pay more and more subsidies and higher and higher taxes as offering at the altar of the environment's religion, you must produce dire consequences for not compliance, just like there is a hell you will be condemned to if you do not comply with what your particular church dictates.

Contradictions between churches don't particularly matter and the masses comply to whatever, according to their personal set of values.
So don't look for logic. There is no logic in religion, and those who write the dogma script for the global warming cult, figured this out long ago.

There are too many people whose livelihood depends of this cult dogma to be true, and all the signs of the prediction to be at the doors of imminent catastrophe. Just like the ancient religions that offered human sacrifices to appease the gods, or the modern church, burning witches alive to please god, we the populace, must pay penitence money for our sins.

And the mercenary scientist paid to write the apocalipsis, keep on writing, and the masses repeat their rubbish in awe ... and rebuke the unbeliever with all they have at hand.

Religious wars have always been about market share and never about truth, a war over acolytes, not research or knowledge. This was true in 1600 and it is true today, so ... you heretic, better accept and comply or be doomed.
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:04   #996
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

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Originally Posted by Marc1 View Post
Steven, if the desired outcome is that the masses keep on paying higher and higher prices for energy due to the use of so called renewables, and accept to pay more and more subsidies and higher and higher taxes as offering at the altar of the environment's religion, you must produce dire consequences for not compliance, just like there is a hell you will be condemned to if you do not comply to what your particular church dictates. Contradictions between churches don't particularly matter and the masses comply to whatever, according to their personal set of values.
So don't look for logic. There is no logic in religion, and those who write the dogma script for the global warming cult, figured this out long ago.

There are too many people whose livelihood depends of this cult dogma to be true, and all the signs of the prediction to be at the doors of imminent catastrophe. Just like the ancient religions that offered human sacrifices to appease the gods, or the modern church, burning witches alive to please god, we the populace, must pay penitence money for our sins.

And the mercenary scientist paid to write the apocalipsis, keep on writing, and the masses repeat their rubbish in awe ... and rebuke the unbeliever with all they have at hand.
How goes the sale of tin-foil headwear?
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:16   #997
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
CO2 Science, the Heartland funded Idso family website, has about the same reputation for misrepresenting science as NTZ.
Here is a classic example:

CO2 science claims

Quote:

What was learned
The nine UK and US researchers report that "the ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula." They also state that the "most recent crystals suggest a warming relative to the LIA in the last century, possibly as part of the regional recent rapid warming," but they add that "this climatic signature is not yet as extreme in nature as the MWP," suggesting that even the dramatic recent warming of the AP may not yet have returned that region to the degree of warmth that was experienced there during the MWP, when the atmosphere's CO2 concentration was more than 100 ppm less than it is today.

What it means
Week after week, new evidence adds to the already voluminous database that suggests that the earth has not yet eclipsed the level of global warmth experienced during the MWP (see our Medieval Warm Period Project), even with the help of all of the anthropogenic-produced CO2 that resides in the atmosphere, which facts cast great doubt upon the climate-alarmist claim that anthropogenic CO2 is the primary cause of earth's current level of not-so-unprecedented global warmth.
CO2 Science

The author says that misrepresents his paper.

Quote:
Zunli Lu:
“It is unfortunate that my research, “An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula,” recently published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters, has been misrepresented by a number of media outlets.

Several of these media articles assert that our study claims the entire Earth heated up during medieval times without human CO2 emissions. We clearly state in our paper that we studied one site at the Antarctic Peninsula. The results should not be extrapolated to make assumptions about climate conditions across the entire globe. Other statements, such as the study “throws doubt on orthodoxies around global warming,” completely misrepresent our conclusions. Our study does not question the well-established anthropogenic warming trend.”
Syracuse University scientist seeks to set the record straight on climate research
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:17   #998
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
perhaps you should review some of the thousands of scientific papers they host .

Then make a reasonable assessment of each and not just discount because the website has data that you don't like .

Dispute the science not the web host ..

Here I will give you an easy one .
CO2 Science
Here is a classic example:

CO2 science claims

Quote:

What was learned
The nine UK and US researchers report that "the ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula." They also state that the "most recent crystals suggest a warming relative to the LIA in the last century, possibly as part of the regional recent rapid warming," but they add that "this climatic signature is not yet as extreme in nature as the MWP," suggesting that even the dramatic recent warming of the AP may not yet have returned that region to the degree of warmth that was experienced there during the MWP, when the atmosphere's CO2 concentration was more than 100 ppm less than it is today.

What it means
Week after week, new evidence adds to the already voluminous database that suggests that the earth has not yet eclipsed the level of global warmth experienced during the MWP (see our Medieval Warm Period Project), even with the help of all of the anthropogenic-produced CO2 that resides in the atmosphere, which facts cast great doubt upon the climate-alarmist claim that anthropogenic CO2 is the primary cause of earth's current level of not-so-unprecedented global warmth.
CO2 Science

The author says that misrepresents his paper.

Quote:
Zunli Lu:
“It is unfortunate that my research, “An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula,” recently published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters, has been misrepresented by a number of media outlets.

Several of these media articles assert that our study claims the entire Earth heated up during medieval times without human CO2 emissions. We clearly state in our paper that we studied one site at the Antarctic Peninsula. The results should not be extrapolated to make assumptions about climate conditions across the entire globe. Other statements, such as the study “throws doubt on orthodoxies around global warming,” completely misrepresent our conclusions. Our study does not question the well-established anthropogenic warming trend.”
Syracuse University scientist seeks to set the record straight on climate research
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:23   #999
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddleduck View Post


guess who sits on a number of advisory panels?

If you’re referring to aquaculture, sea bass may actually benefit from climate change in uk waters due to sst increases (according to the same grant grabbing scientists). There’s a big difference between wild and aquaculture. Ocean acidification ranges from minor to major impacts across aquaculture and wild native species ( only DIRECTLY commercially sensitive species seem to be studied for some reason ). Who’s do you thinks funding the research?

No more wild bass if they can’t close their life cycle but no such a problem in aquaculture.

Any ideas what bass use their sense of smell for? Sniffing CF BS? I see exiles an expert in this area, maybe get him to help you with your homework.

P.s nice to see you referring to a quality source for a change, IUCN holds much more credibility than trip advisor in this field... reminds me, I’m due a holiday!

Since you sit on advisory panels, I guess you, as the expert here, don't really need me to point out that the "LC" threatened species designation doesn't refer to farmed fish. You also appear be considering a broad range of species. Would you care to include Australian Bass in your assessment or is that outside your panel's scope? Of course we don't really know how well these other guys smell or not because they weren't subjects of the study.
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:24   #1000
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

The No-Surrender Approach:
Confronted with facts that don’t fit his view of the world, the deniers’ strategy is simply this:
Deny, deny, deny. Then deny, deceive, obfuscate, , fudge, pervert, distort, falsify, and lie.


The misuse of uncertainty, as a justification for inaction, has a long history.
Whenever there is any scientific finding, that impacts vested interests, first denial, then uncertainty will be trotted out as the reason for opposing the science.
That's been true for tobacco; true for the ozone hole; and true for climate change.
There's even a term & acronym for it, which William Freudenburg coined in the 2008 paper:
“Scientific Certainty Argumentation Methods (SCAMs): Science and the Politics of Doubt” ~ by
William R. Freudenburg et al.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...X.2008.00219.x

In another essay*, researchers dismantle a common form of climate skepticism: defending inaction on climate change by citing lingering uncertainties in climate models and in other scientific evidence of the mounting crisis.
From their abstract: “Opponents of policies to limit anthropogenic climate change (ACC) have offered a changing set of arguments—denying or questioning ACC's existence, magnitude, and rate of progress, the risks it presents, the integrity of climate scientists, and the value of mitigation efforts. Similar arguments have characterized environmental risk debates concerning arsenical insecticides in the late 1800s, phosphates in detergents in the 1960s, and the pesticide DDT in the 1960s and '70s.
Typically, defenders of business as usual first question the scientific evidence that risks exist; then, they question the magnitude of the risks, and assert that reducing them has more costs than benefits.
A parallel rhetorical shift away from outright skepticism led us to identify “neoskepticism” as a new incarnation of opposition to major efforts to limit ACC. This shift heightens the need for science to inform decision making under uncertainty and to improve communication and education.”
“The challenge of climate-change neoskepticism” ~ by Paul C. Stern et al.
* ➥ https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...0/653.abstract
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:30   #1001
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

So predictable

“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.”

― Thomas Jefferson
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:33   #1002
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
The No-Surrender Approach:
Confronted with facts that don’t fit his view of the world, the deniers’ strategy is simply this:
Deny, deny, deny. Then deny, deceive, obfuscate, , fudge, pervert, distort, falsify, and lie.


The misuse of uncertainty, as a justification for inaction, has a long history.
Whenever there is any scientific finding, that impacts vested interests, first denial, then uncertainty will be trotted out as the reason for opposing the science.
That's been true for tobacco; true for the ozone hole; and true for climate change.
There's even a term & acronym for it, which William Freudenburg coined in the 2008 paper:
“Scientific Certainty Argumentation Methods (SCAMs): Science and the Politics of Doubt” ~ by
William R. Freudenburg et al.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...X.2008.00219.x

In another essay*, researchers dismantle a common form of climate skepticism: defending inaction on climate change by citing lingering uncertainties in climate models and in other scientific evidence of the mounting crisis.
From their abstract: “Opponents of policies to limit anthropogenic climate change (ACC) have offered a changing set of arguments—denying or questioning ACC's existence, magnitude, and rate of progress, the risks it presents, the integrity of climate scientists, and the value of mitigation efforts. Similar arguments have characterized environmental risk debates concerning arsenical insecticides in the late 1800s, phosphates in detergents in the 1960s, and the pesticide DDT in the 1960s and '70s.
Typically, defenders of business as usual first question the scientific evidence that risks exist; then, they question the magnitude of the risks, and assert that reducing them has more costs than benefits.
A parallel rhetorical shift away from outright skepticism led us to identify “neoskepticism” as a new incarnation of opposition to major efforts to limit ACC. This shift heightens the need for science to inform decision making under uncertainty and to improve communication and education.”
“The challenge of climate-change neoskepticism” ~ by Paul C. Stern et al.
* ➥ https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...0/653.abstract
Another, more recent, paper that might be of interest:

Quote:

Theoretical and Applied Climatology

November 2016, Volume 126, Issue 3–4, pp 699–703

Learning from mistakes in climate research

Authors and affiliations
Rasmus E. Benestad Email author Dana Nuccitelli Stephan Lewandowsky Katharine Hayhoe Hans Olav Hygen Rob van Dorland John Cook


Abstract
Among papers stating a position on anthropogenic global warming (AGW), 97 % endorse AGW. What is happening with the 2 % of papers that reject AGW? We examine a selection of papers rejecting AGW. An analytical tool has been developed to replicate and test the results and methods used in these studies; our replication reveals a number of methodological flaws, and a pattern of common mistakes emerges that is not visible when looking at single isolated cases. Thus, real-life scientific disputes in some cases can be resolved, and we can learn from mistakes. A common denominator seems to be missing contextual information or ignoring information that does not fit the conclusions, be it other relevant work or related geophysical data. In many cases, shortcomings are due to insufficient model evaluation, leading to results that are not universally valid but rather are an artifact of a particular experimental setup. Other typical weaknesses include false dichotomies, inappropriate statistical methods, or basing conclusions on misconceived or incomplete physics. We also argue that science is never settled and that both mainstream and contrarian papers must be subject to sustained scrutiny. The merit of replication is highlighted and we discuss how the quality of the scientific literature may benefit from replication.
https://link.springer.com/article/10...704-015-1597-5
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:35   #1003
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

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Originally Posted by Marc1 View Post
So predictable

“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.”

― Thomas Jefferson
You are admitting to "unintelligible propositions"? That is refreshing.
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:37   #1004
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

[QUOTE=jackdale;2949492]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddleduck View Post

May I see some evidence to support this assertion? I assume you are referring to the mainstream view in science and not public opinion.

There is apparent contradiction between paragraphs 1&2 and paragraph 296 of Vastas' judgement.
Check out Ridds peer reviewed publications (JCU), you’ll soon get an idea of his field of expertise...not coral or reef health, more mining funded science or dredging hydrology!

His broad assumptions on coral reef health rely on data from Porites sp. which is about the most robust and adaptable coral species and best adapted to rapidly changing environmental conditions. Porites does not make a reef, less the GBR! Sympatric species associated with Porites is F all compared to branching corals
But apparently branching corals are weeds!

just follow the money!

Bring in back to pH and ocean acidification, corals can internally regulate pH for calcification 8.2 - 7.8. Generally, the thicker the cell wall, the more robust to internal regulation. Guess which coral win?

If you want specifics, pm me. I’ll rip him a new A hole!
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Old 08-08-2019, 15:43   #1005
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Re: Ocean acidifcation .

[QUOTE=jackdale;2949531]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post

An exactly an allegiance.



https://www.iflscience.com/environme...lobal-warming/

BTW newhaul says this is not acknowledgment of AGW on Zharkova's part.
IOW, a poor example of a scientist who is getting published despite her skepticism. Try again please, or stop digging.
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