Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-08-2019, 18:58   #1231
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 8,550
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddleduck View Post


No you go for it billie Elliot, sign up Wherever you like. 28 years should do it! Maybe then we can talk fish hormones...
28 years ??????

Slow learner ??? Coffee grounds get rid of that smell in the galley.
__________________

__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 19:32   #1232
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,792
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
..Or jackdale posting a DeSmogBlog link on Ridd that will invariably paint him as a crackpot.
You really can't blame him. It's so much easier just to play the man rather than the ball (and then claim the opposite). Especially when DeSmogBlog already has such an extensive rap sheet on the guy.

https://www.desmogblog.com/peter-ridd

But then Ridd is quite the serial sinner. Just look at all the charges based on guilt-by-association listed therein. He even had the gall to take a paid consulting job with mining interests to research whether a coal shipping terminal was causing any damage to surrounding sea beds. Hey, so what if all the proceeds went back to the university for further research? The point is Puddleduck can "rip him a new one" (by pm only of course) for being in bed with evil mining cos. That's enough for a media headline, so who cares? Do I hear Professor Happer calling??
__________________

Exile is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 19:38   #1233
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,792
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddleduck View Post
So you see the limitations right? That’s being objective!
Always saw my limitations. Unlike others here, no pretense intended nor implied. Not sure I'm all that objective, but maybe fair-minded enough to tell when someone else is trying to yank my chain. I try not to deliberately misrepresent anything, including my experience & abilities. What's your explanation?
Exile is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 20:08   #1234
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,792
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
[quote... I'm sure the scientists could explain it quite well, but what are you quoting it to demonstrate? ...
I took no position. My first citation of the scientific paper was intended to amplify the Science Daily article (based on that paper) linked by ImaginaryNumber, thinking it might further inform the interested reader.

I agree about the importance of a clear & informative Abstract, and often quote them, myself. Unfortunately, newhaul chose to imply that the introductory sentence represents the authors’ state of ignorance; stating that they learned nothing from their work, and know nothing. I believe that to be an unfair misrepresentation of the study (47% = 0), and the authors’ knowledge. Also believing that newhaul is too intelligent to fully believe that, I must also believe he was being intellectually dishonest.
Hence my frustration.[/QUOTE]

Well then, I guess you'll have to tell me as well what they learned from the study. I'll go out on a wild limb here, and suggest you liked the single line bolded below that was also found in the abstract and which you've already highlighted:

"... Ocean acidification is expected to negatively impact calcifying organisms, yet we lack understanding of their acclimation potential in the natural environment."

I have no idea what this means when read in its entirety, but wouldn't think it unreasonable for at least a non-scientist to conclude that they've been able to show some sort of negative impact in a model or a controlled environment (lab), but they don't know how lower ph will impact in the real world. So while maybe not useless, it seems like their research was unable to produce any evidence of negative impacts in the native environment (where it counts). In other words, they "don't know." But stay tuned, as I'm sure the media will soon produce a headline from this study that reads . . .

"Study Shows That Ocean Acidification Caused By Climate Change Linked To Increased Erosion of GBR"

Lots of copy will get sold, adults and small children alike will be alarmed, the study will be cited here on CF, and doubters will be vilified, called names, and labeled as sinners. And round & round we go.
Exile is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 20:27   #1235
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,792
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
I see Stone Island got a mention, and in conjunction with the climate crisis challenge I thought I'd post this picture I took last week. It's taken from the Bowen jetty and that tip of land in the foreground to the left is the southern end of Stone Island.
Attachment 197661
Is Stone Island sinking?

I'm busy working on my own contribution to the CC Challenge by planning to dig a core sample in my backyard. I've applied to various science foundations for a grant to buy a proper piece of machinery to expedite the work, but they don't seem to believe I'll find anything other than evidence of normal climate variability. So my next attempt will be to hypothesize that all the extra CO2 is negatively affecting the olfactory sensibilities of earth worms living underneath my yard (and otherwise minding their own business). So hopefully this will be enough to at least cover my living expenses while I dig. Stay tuned for further updates.
Exile is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 20:32   #1236
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,792
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddleduck View Post
Bass sniffing!

Any news on that homework? Always quick to have an opinion but never an answer.
Oh how I wish you would tell. Something I've always wanted to know from the keyboard of a real expert. If it's classified or confidential feel free to pm me, but do include some a**-rippin' on the evil Dr. Ridd.
Exile is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 20:44   #1237
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 3,992
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Is Stone Island sinking?

I'm busy working on my own contribution to the CC Challenge by planning to dig a core sample in my backyard. I've applied to various science foundations for a grant to buy a proper piece of machinery to expedite the work, but they don't seem to believe I'll find anything other than evidence of normal climate variability. So my next attempt will be to hypothesize that all the extra CO2 is negatively affecting the olfactory sensibilities of earth worms living underneath my yard (and otherwise minding their own business). So hopefully this will be enough to at least cover my living expenses while I dig. Stay tuned for further updates.

Stone Island was an object of focus in one of the Peter Ridd discussions. The notable thing about Stone Island is that it sits just off the shoreline from Bowen in a large, shallow bay and it was actually a surprise to me that there would be any significant coral reef around it based on my opinion that it is in a reasonably crappy location for coral to grow compared to other areas in the region.
Reefmagnet is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 20:47   #1238
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,792
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Stone Island was an object of focus in one of the Peter Ridd discussions. The notable thing about Stone Island is that it sits just off the shoreline from Bowen in a large, shallow bay and it was actually a surprise to me that there would be any significant coral reef around it based on my opinion that it is in a reasonably crappy location for coral to grow compared to other areas in the region.
So does Ridd use it as an example of his basic premise that corals are more resilient & adaptable than others would have us believe?
Exile is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 20:51   #1239
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 3,992
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc1 View Post
If you though burning of witches is a thing of the past, think again.
The new GWR (global warming religion) encourages this practice, rather the new modern version of defamation, censure, and termination of employment to name a few.

One of the constant bleating and whining of the warmist cheer leaders is that the barrier reef is just about dead, kaput, finished forever.

Fake news of course, to support the other fake cult of so called global warming.

Fake Photographs At Heart of Peter Ridd’s Sacking
Jennifer Marohasy 25 March 2019 , IPA TODAY, PUBLICATIONS, In The News, RESEARCH AREAS, Climate Change Originally appeared in Jennifer Marohasy Blog
Share:Print this pageEmail to someoneShare on FacebookTweet about this on TwitterShare on LinkedInPin on Pinterest
EARLY last year a professor of physics at James Cook University was sacked – after a successful career spanning some forty years. Peter Ridd had won many university awards, including the inaugural ‘Supervisor of the Year’, presumably nominated by one or more of his thirty-something PhD students. He published over 100 scientific papers and earned the university millions of dollars through consultancies. Some claim that it all came to a sorry end because he dared to question the consensus of scientific opinion concerning the health of the Great Barrier Reef – particularly the impact of global warming. The university claims it was because he had become “un-collegial” and did not follow various directives while disclosing confidential information. These issues will be argued in the Federal Circuit Court in Brisbane on Tuesday, when the matter is heard by Judge Salvatore Vasta. Very few people realize that at the heart of the case are a couple of what might be best described as “fake-news” photographs.

If Peter Ridd had become un-collegial and disclosed confidential information, it was because he was fed-up with the fake-news many of his colleagues continued to spread. As he wrote in chapter 1 of the book that I edited two years ago, a chapter entitled ‘The Extraordinary Resilience of Great Barrier Reef Corals, and Problems with Policy Science’:

“I [Peter Ridd] have carried out half-a-dozen audits on some of the science claiming damage to the Great Barrier Reef, and in every case I have discovered serious problems.”

Ridd was censored a final time by the University soon after the book chapter was published, and then, when he refused to remain silent about this, he was sacked. His first censoring by the University had been two years earlier, just after he sent Peter Michael, a News Ltd journalists, photographs that showed spectacular and healthy corals growing off Stone Reef not far from Bowen in Central Queensland.

Ridd has spent his entire university career studying the reef – the first decade as part of a team measuring water quality in the inner Great Barrier Reef, including port facilities and river mouths. Ridd was responsible for the invention of three instruments, all built at the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University and concerned with measuring the muddiness, technically known as turbidity, of water.

His colleagues, Piers Larcombe and Ken Woolfe, published several seminal papers concluding that the turbidity of the inner reef waters is controlled by the size of the waves varying with the wind and weather, not adjacent land use.*

Yet the popular message from prominent scientists has been that sediment from farming and mining is killing corals. In particular, the “before and after photographs” of Stone Reef have been acclaimed and were promoted by Terry Hughes of the ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies as evidence that sediment has destroyed the fringing coral reefs off Stone Island.

Historical photographs supposedly taken at the same location circa 1890 (left) and 1994 (right), off Stone Island. The profile of the far horizon is similar, but not the same.
The photographs have now become an iconic symbol of reef ruin, but as Ridd wrote to journalist Peter Michaels:

“I have always been highly sceptical of these photographs … My own work has shown that this explanation is virtually impossible especially for locations such as this. In addition it does not take account of the fact that these inshore reefs can change dramatically with time especially with the passage of cyclones which can temporarily obliterate them. Ten years after a cyclone they may have fully recovered.

“The presentation of the photographs also gives us the impression that we know where the original 100-year-old picture was taken. In fact, we can only guess within a kilometre or two, and in this area it would not be unusual to find great coral in one spot and nothing a kilometre away. The selection of the position of where the modern photo was taken can thus decide what message we see. Finally, seeing dead reef does not necessarily mean that it died recently. In fact there are literally hundreds of square kilometres of dead reef-flat on the GBR which was killed due to the slow sealevel fall of about a meter that has occurred over the last 5000 years. This has left a lot of coral high and dry at low tide which kills the coral. It is easy to take a picture of a dead reef, but it does not mean it died recently.

“A month or so ago I decided to see if there was good coral in the area that these pictures were taken so I asked a couple of my field technicians to take some photographs in the area with the same island backdrop as the two original pictures. You will note that there is spectacular coral living there – at least in many spots within the area that the original photos were taken.” End quote.

I am quoting extracts from the email that Ridd sent to Peter Michael three years ago. He also commented in that email:

“Any decent marine scientist or boat owner around Bowen, could have told you there is lots of coral around Bowen and that it is spectacular.”

Rather than investigate, Peter Michael sent the photographs and correspondence from Ridd to Terry Hughes, the scientist who had been claiming these same corals off Stone Island were all dead. That correspondence was immediately passed to university administrators, and then used to censor Peter Ridd for being un-collegial. This began the process which eventually resulted in Peter Ridd’s sacking last year, in early 2018.

Seeing is believing, yet the truth in the 2015 photographs showing healthy corals was ignored.

I’m hoping that Peter Ridd’s correspondence to journalist Peter Michael will be tabled in the Federal Circuit Court this week for all to see, and for all to judge. There is no need of scientific qualifications to see that there is still spectacular fringing coral reef around Stone Island.

This is but one example of the fake news continually propagated about the imminent demise of the Great Barrier Reef.

Sixteen years ago, I wrote about how a naturally occurring dioxin was incorrectly classified as a pesticide from sugarcane farming and then blamed for the death of two dugongs that had been killed in fishing nets.

A two-year investigation by the National Research Centre for Environmental Toxicology concluded that this specific dioxin was common in soils along the entire Queensland coastline, and predated the era of European settlement … however, the fake news about “pesticide kills dugongs” continued to be repeated by the media and was added to a key report by Queensland’s then Chief Scientist, Dr Joe Baker.

The litany of false claims when it comes to the Great Barrier Reef is as spectacular as the many healthy clown fish that continue to amuse and entertain anyone who dives into its warm waters.

I’m hopeful that Peter Ridd will win his case this week, but it is likely to be argued on the basis of an academic’s right to intellectual freedom. It is unclear how much evidence about the actual state of the Great Barrier Reef will be heard – if any.

If Ridd wins, the assumption may be that this academic is nevertheless wrong in detail – and the Great Barrier Reef is ailing, if not from bad farming practices then from catastrophic human-caused global warming. To report that the Great Barrier Reef may be in good health – or at least that the fringing corals off Stone Island have not been harmed by farming – would be to admit that much of what has been reported over recent decades is fake news. It is. Fake news, and sometimes accompanied by fake photographs.

* Specifically, the prevailing south-easterly trade winds have a dominant influence. The wind and resulting waves produce a current that flows northward. The current traps sediment in north-facing bays because they are relatively protected from winds blowing from the south-east. Importantly, this research established that any additional sediment coming down the rivers will have no effect on the muddiness of the waters of the Great Barrier Reef.

One of the most important technical papers is ‘Increased sediment supply to the Great Barrier Reef will not increase sediment accumulation at most coral reefs’ by P. Larcombe and K.J. Woolfe in the journal Coral Reefs, volume 18, page 163-190, published in 1999.

Quoting directly from this technical paper:

“The interplay between coral reefs and terrigenous sediment along the inner-shelf of the GBR shelf can be discussed in terms of two principle components, sediment accumulation and suspended sediment (the latter being the main regional contributor towards turbidity). Sediment accumulation describes the increase in thick- ness of a sediment body, caused by addition of material at its upper surface. In this context, accumulation is a regional geological phenomenon, and has probably played a significant role in controlling the distribution of coral reefs within the GBR at various stages of sea level, primarily because accumulating sediments blanket substrates otherwise suitable for colonisation by corals.

In contrast, turbidity is a transient oceanographic phenomenon, that is temporally and spatially variable because it is largely related to physical forces acting on the sea bed. The role of turbidity in influencing the distribution of corals is thus also spatially variable, related to regional variations in turbidity regimes, and, also on a regional scale, is probably partly controlled by the location of accumulations of muddy sediments.

It is also necessary to distinguish between changes in the turbidity of rivers entering the GBR lagoon and changes in turbidity in the lagoon itself. Few coral reefs occur near river mouths, because of the high turbidity, rates of sediment accumulation, and low availability of suitable substrates generally associated with such environments.

… In most places on the inner shelf, the thickness of the sediment wedge means that there is ample (muddy) sediment immediately available for resuspension. Sediment availability does not limit the concentration of suspended sediment (and largely, turbidity) in the water column, rather the controls are hydrodynamic in nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
So does Ridd use it as an example of his basic premise that corals are more resilient & adaptable than others would have us believe?

Best to read original the link above to get the picture
Reefmagnet is offline  
Old 10-08-2019, 21:30   #1240
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,792
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Best to read original the link above to get the picture
Good suggestion. I missed it the first time, focusing more on Marc1's second posting that contained Ridd's letter.

I thought it also helped explain why the vast expanse of the GBR cannot be more easily surveyed, and the condition of the coral more precisely tracked.

This only presents one side of the story but if it went down as described, it astounds me that the university would respond to actual PHOTOS of the area in question by firing the guy based on alleged breaches of the institution's internal code of conduct. It'd be one thing if the photos were doctored or didn't show the exact location as represented, but merely because they showed healthy coral when previous old & undated photos showed dead ones? Unbelievable. But maybe there's more to the story.

In my mind the credibility of the university is already suspect for spinning the federal court ruling as not being about intellectual freedom. As already noted, that appears to be a misnomer, since the judge was apparently not referring to the same basis for such rights in the ruling's introductory paragraphs as those that he used to rule on. But beyond the legalese, it couldn't be more obvious what was seemingly really going on here, and it's the same thing that's been going on in every institution, media outlet, and many govt agencies. More troubling imo than which experts are "right" or "wrong." Subverting the truth for selfish ends is always worse than what the truth actually is. At least in free societies.
Exile is offline  
Old 11-08-2019, 04:45   #1241
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 201
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0311133120.htm
ImaginaryNumber is offline  
Old 11-08-2019, 05:39   #1242
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 38,198
Images: 241
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Ocean temperature 'surprises' becoming more common:
A new study*, published this week, shows how marine ecosystems around the world are experiencing unusually high ocean temperatures, more frequently than researchers previously expected. These warming events, including marine heatwaves, are disrupting marine ecosystems and the people who depend on them.
Dr. Pershing and his colleagues examined 65 large marine ecosystems, from 1854-2018, to identify the frequency of surprising ocean temperatures, which they defined as an annual mean temperature that is two standard deviations above the mean of the previous three decades.
The researchers identified these "surprises" all over the world, including the Arctic, North Atlantic, eastern Pacific, and off of Australia. Moreover, these warming events occurred at nearly double the rate the scientists expected.
Across the 65 ecosystems the examined, they expected about six or seven of them would experience these 'surprises' each year. Instead, they saw an average of 12 ecosystems experiencing these warming events each year over the past seven years, including a high of 23 'surprises' in 2016.
In natural communities (e.g. coral reefs, fish, plankton, etc.), new species that prefer warmer conditions can often replace cold-loving species that suffer when an ecosystem warms. In gradually warming ecosystems, the changeover of species should be able to keep pace, according to the study. However, in ecosystems that are experiencing change much faster, these natural communities are expected to suffer reductions in both biomass and diversity.
As the incidence of these extreme warming events continues to rise, the results of this study highlight the importance of using climate projections and other predictive tools (as opposed to just past historical experiences) to make decisions about the future.

“Challenges to natural and human communities from surprising ocean temperatures” ~ by Andrew J. Pershing et al.
*Open Access (full) Paper ➥ https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../30/1901084116

Supporting Information ➥ https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/su...84116.sapp.pdf
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 11-08-2019, 10:52   #1243
Registered User
 
jackdale's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,526
Images: 1
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaginaryNumber View Post
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is online now  
Old 11-08-2019, 11:04   #1244
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,792
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Good to see you've also decided to take Reef up on his CC Challenge, but I can do you one better.

Vanishing US Coastlines

Exile is offline  
Old 11-08-2019, 11:12   #1245
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 8,550
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Good to see you've also decided to take Reef up on his CC Challenge, but I can do you one better.

Vanishing US Coastlines

at least he admits that the east coast is subsiding . 99% of the MMGWC won't admit it .
So good on Mr fair .
__________________

__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Star in the Ocean - A lonely and his beloved (the star) are crossing the ocean Velanera General Sailing Forum 18 21-12-2017 05:22
For Sale: Ocean 60 - Southern Ocean Shipyards for sale Ocean Viking Classifieds Archive 2 12-05-2013 04:30
Volvo Ocean racers take a rain check on the Indian ocean sarafina Cruising News & Events 7 06-02-2012 13:52
World Ocean Database and World Ocean Atlas Series GordMay The Library 2 15-01-2007 21:14
Cruising the Indian Ocean Bob Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 1 29-03-2003 09:46

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.