Ocean acidifcation .

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

that's the critter yep

Good stuff. I gather you reject the part about CO2 being the earth's thermostat.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Good stuff. I gather you reject the part about CO2 being the earth's thermostat.

I agree with that just not mans misplaced idea that he can actually have any real effects on it. One way or the other. Man has had a far larger effect on it via land clearing and farming

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I agree with that just not mans misplaced idea that he can actually have any real effects on it. One way or the other. Man has had a far larger effect on it via land clearing and farming

So you also reject the comment at the last 2 minutes of the program; the one that shows the car exhaust.

[jackdale]

This a link to a channel that has some of the Secrets of the Earth programs.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdd...7HsNhouaxZlDkQ

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SailOar

I haven't been following your and JD's discussion very closely. What is the point you are trying to make about these two NASA charts?

I was wondering the same thing, and lost the plot early. It's just how threads like these roll sometimes. But from reading one of Jack's links, I gather that at least part of the controversy involving Tony Heller's comparative graphs was that NASA's versions incorporated its adjustments/corrections while Heller's did not. I'm not trying to revisit that particular issue which has long since been bashed about, only commenting that part of the back & forth may have been another bash-fest over this. But don't worry, if I got it wrong I shall be corrected soon enough.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I agree with that just not mans misplaced idea that he can actually have any real effects on it. One way or the other. Man has had a far larger effect on it via land clearing and farming

Wait a minute. If we can influence the climate one way by land clearing and farming, then we can influence it in the other direction by reforestation and more responsible agriculture, right? Same applies to fossil fuels: if ever-increasing use of them is dumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which has led to warming, then cutting back on them should at least reduce the rate at which the warming is increasing. You get this, right?

[SailOar]

Hello Newhaul,
Here is another ocean acidification study not requiring the artificial addition of hydrochloric acid.

Ocean acidification is having major impact on marine life

Writing in Scientific Reports, researchers say that three centuries of industrial development have already had a marked effect on our seas.

But if CO2 levels continue to rise as predicted, the coming decades and lowering seawater pH levels will have an even greater and potentially catastrophic impact.

Their predictions follow a comprehensive study of the effects of recently discovered volcanic CO2 seeps off Shikine Island, Japan, which is on the border of temperate and tropical climates.

Ocean currents in the area mean there are naturally low levels of surface water CO2, similar to those that would have been present before the global Industrial Revolution. However, the volcanic seeps indicate how rising CO2 levels will affect future ecology, both in the northwest Pacific Ocean and across the world.....

They found that while a few plant species benefited from the changing conditions, they tended to be smaller weeds and algae that blanket the seabed, choking corals and lowering overall marine diversity....

"Our research site is like a time machine. In areas with pre-Industrial levels of CO2 the coast has an impressive amount of calcified organisms such as corals and oysters. But in areas with present-day average levels of surface seawater CO2 we found far fewer corals and other calcified life, and so there was less biodiversity. It shows the extensive damage caused by humans due to CO2 emissions over the past 300 years and unless we can get a grip on reducing CO2 emissions we will undoubtedly see major degradation of coastal systems worldwide."....

And the deniers just keep denying -- but that's okay, because they express their thoughts in their own words rather than borrowing the words of someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

So you also reject the comment at the last 2 minutes of the program; the one that shows the car exhaust.

that shot is just the standard MMGWC propaganda showing water vapor and particulate matter shot like showing the steam coming out of a power plant cooling tower as they talk about co2 which we all know is colorless odorless gas and not in the cooling tower steam .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Exile

I was wondering the same thing, and lost the plot early. It's just how threads like these roll sometimes. But from reading one of Jack's links, I gather that at least part of the controversy involving Tony Heller's comparative graphs was that NASA's versions incorporated its adjustments/corrections while Heller's did not. I'm not trying to revisit that particular issue which has long since been bashed about, only commenting that part of the back & forth may have been another bash-fest over this. But don't worry, if I got it wrong I shall be corrected soon enough.

his issue was that the graphs had additional graphic red circles that highlighted the data that was changed by Hansen and company

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

One way or the other. Man has had a far larger effect on it via land clearing and farming

A paper you may wish to read; Assessing the implications of human land-use
change for the transient climate response to cumulative carbon emissions

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...1/3/035001/pdf

[Exile]

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

My conclusion is any information from notrickzone should be considered just false on its face.

I can see the appeal of this sort of approach and sometimes it may be warranted. But in general I think it's an all too convenient way for people to insulate themselves from information they don't like and which therefore makes them uncomfortable (myself included). So it generally only serves to exacerbate the polarization. I think a lot of the angst we see on these threads (and out in the public) is less about one side rejecting another side's views, but real shock/surprise that otherwise rational, intelligent people could even have such views. And that's from people being overly insulated in their own cocoons. Breaching divides requires more effort to understand where the other side is coming from before we simply assign labels or ascribe "inferior" motives. Not to necessarily change minds, but to be more effective advocates and hopefully become better at reaching compromise.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

his issue was that the graphs had additional graphic red circles that highlighted the data that was changed by Hansen and company

newhaul claimed he directly linked to NASA graphs. He did not. The NASA graphs do not have the additional red graphics.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

that shot is just the standard MMGWC propaganda showing water vapor and particulate matter shot like showing the steam coming out of a power plant cooling tower as they talk about co2 which we all know is colorless odorless gas and not in the cooling tower steam .

Are you claiming car exhaust does not contain CO2?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Wait a minute. If we can influence the climate one way by land clearing and farming, then we can influence it in the other direction by reforestation and more responsible agriculture, right? Same applies to fossil fuels: if ever-increasing use of them is dumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which has led to warming, then cutting back on them should at least reduce the rate at which the warming is increasing. You get this, right?

actually the majority of mans effect on the climate happened approx 5,000 years ago when humans started clearing land and went from hunter gatherer to a sedentary farming society .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Are you claiming car exhaust does not contain CO2?

not claiming that there isn't some in there but the showing all of the obvious pollutants coming out of the cars tail pipe is an obvious false flag ment to cause a reaction .
Simple social science 101 . It is also an implied lie.