Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-08-2019, 03:53   #361
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Fountaine Pajot, Helia 44 - Hull #16
Posts: 395
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Unless each and every one of 7.5 billion people drive vehicles every day, your comparison is flawed.

And guess from where that coal and oil's carbon was originally extracted?


Yes, it was originally created by plants over millions of years. It is currently underground not in the environment. Unlike the CO2, you breathe out which just came from a plant. We are taking millions of years of sequestered carbon and dumping it into the air, so of course the CO2 is rising.
__________________

AllenRbrts is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:05   #362
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Fountaine Pajot, Helia 44 - Hull #16
Posts: 395
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptards View Post
Let's step back a few decades, when Acid rain was the big issue here in the Eastern US, due to burning coal, so the US cut back the usage of coal & stepped up scrubbing.



Now we have oceanic acidification, who's going to step up to the plate and tell China & India to stop burning coal? Sam Walton, Ali Baba? Jeff Bezos? Consumers?


Perhaps a small step in the right direction would be to stop selling coal to them
__________________

AllenRbrts is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:15   #363
Registered User
 
Marc1's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: 2004 Steber 2200 Persuader
Posts: 203
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenRbrts View Post
Yes, it was originally created by plants over millions of years. It is currently underground not in the environment. Unlike the CO2, you breathe out which just came from a plant. We are taking millions of years of sequestered carbon and dumping it into the air, so of course the CO2 is rising.
And this is a problem why exactly?
Marc1 is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:29   #364
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 38,198
Images: 241
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
... Would it disturb you to know that termites release between two to ten times more CO2 to the environment (depending on what source you read) than humans emit? And this is inclusive of that produced by our technology like coal fired power stations and 2020 plated V8 muscle cars.
It would shock me, because it's just plain WRONG.

The only pollutant of concern from termite activity is methane (CH4); although termite activity also results in the production of carbon dioxide (CO2). As Lake-Effect explained (post #274), these CO2 emissions are part of the regular carbon cycle, and as such should not be included in a greenhouse gas emissions inventory.
Estimates of the contribution to the global budget of CH4, from termites, vary widely, from negligible up to 15 percent (due to the difficulty in estimating the total global biomass of termites).

In a study* published in PNAS, a team of researchers led by Dr. Philipp Nauer, found that around half of all methane emitted from termites is broken down by bacteria within the termite mounds and underlying soil before it enters the atmosphere.
“... Three independent methods demonstrated that 20 to 80% of termite-produced CH4 was consumed before reaching the atmosphere ...”
“Termite mounds mitigate half of termite methane emissions” ~ by Philipp A. Nauer et al.
* ➥ https://www.pnas.org/content/115/52/13306
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:45   #365
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 3,992
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
It would shock me, because it's just plain WRONG.

The only pollutant of concern from termite activity is methane (CH4); although termite activity also results in the production of carbon dioxide (CO2). As Lake-Effect explained (post #274), these CO2 emissions are part of the regular carbon cycle, and as such should not be included in a greenhouse gas emissions inventory.
Estimates of the contribution to the global budget of CH4, from termites, vary widely, from negligible up to 15 percent (due to the difficulty in estimating the total global biomass of termites).

In a study* published in PNAS, a team of researchers led by Dr. Philipp Nauer, found that around half of all methane emitted from termites is broken down by bacteria within the termite mounds and underlying soil before it enters the atmosphere.
“... Three independent methods demonstrated that 20 to 80% of termite-produced CH4 was consumed before reaching the atmosphere ...”
“Termite mounds mitigate half of termite methane emissions” ~ by Philipp A. Nauer et al.
* ➥ https://www.pnas.org/content/115/52/13306

So where do you reckon all the carbon from the cellulose they exclusively feed on goes? Last time I looked at a termite mound with any interest, it was made of mud. Not carbon.



Surely it's not vanishing into thin air?
Reefmagnet is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:00   #366
Registered User
 
TeddyDiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch (and +3 smaller)
Posts: 2,267
Images: 2
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
Surely the antarctic should be melting as well?
Sure, think about stirring Larssen A, B and C into southern ocean. What you think it means?
TeddyDiver is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:37   #367
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 38,198
Images: 241
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
So where do you reckon all the carbon from the cellulose they exclusively feed on goes? ...
Yes, it's RETURNING to the same place it RECENTLY came from.

Termites are recycling wood and other plant matter. That is necessary to ensure space and nutrients are available for the next generation of plants. The effect on the CO2 budget, between plants absorbing CO2 from the air and termites returning it to the air, is zero.

Humans on the other hand are digging up and burning CO2 accumulated as carbon over millions of years, and returning it to the atmosphere without a balancing process of removal.

https://www.bgc-jena.mpg.de/bgc-syst...erson_1997.pdf

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...29139317300318

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/88a...5e2c620e31.pdf
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:56   #368
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 3,992
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Yes, it's RETURNING to the same place it RECENTLY came from.

Termites are recycling wood and other plant matter. That is necessary to ensure space and nutrients are available for the next generation of plants. The effect on the CO2 budget, between plants absorbing CO2 from the air and termites returning it to the air, is zero.

Humans on the other hand are digging up and burning CO2 accumulated as carbon over millions of years, and returning it to the atmosphere without a balancing process of removal.

https://www.bgc-jena.mpg.de/bgc-syst...erson_1997.pdf

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...29139317300318

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/88a...5e2c620e31.pdf

What makes you so confident that sinks and sources are in sync? It's effectively two competing systems, not a symbiotic one.
Reefmagnet is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 07:11   #369
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 8,550
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Out of what orifice did you dig that?
from satellite measurements that are commonly available .

The real question is why haven't you availed yourself of it .

Btw just so you know the data is on a 2 hour lag time .
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curren...19.312,-10.621
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20190805-070915.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	336.8 KB
ID:	197217  
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 07:15   #370
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 8,550
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Radiative forcing according to the IPCC. Human activity overwhelms natural forcing.

cute chart that is missing a major item
It shows tsi but it is missing total solar forcings. Which is at least as strong as the listed " total " anthropogenic " forcings .
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 07:20   #371
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 5,434
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Once an exhaust gas enters the environment it becomes part of the natural cycle. CO2 builds up in the atmosphere because the sinks can't keep up with the sources. How much land area has been bulldozed and paved over since 1850?
A very important contribution, indeed. The 'A' in AGW isn't just the burning of fossil fuels. Restoring sinks is part of the fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
What makes you so confident that sinks and sources are in sync? It's effectively two competing systems, not a symbiotic one.
Because all the sources and sinks we know about have been more or less in balance, as expressed in pre-industrial natural records. If something 'natural' has gone out of whack so badly in the last 200 years that could increase CO2 at a rate anywhere near that of fossil fuels, you'd kind of think we'd pick up on that, yes? Unless you subscribe to Exile's Natural Forces That Cannot Be Measured.
Lake-Effect is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 07:27   #372
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 38,198
Images: 241
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
[1] What makes you so confident that sinks and sources are in sync?
[2] It's effectively two competing systems, not a symbiotic one.
I don't understand the question [1], nor the statement [2].
Please elucidate.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:03   #373
Registered User
 
jackdale's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,527
Images: 1
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
Surely the antarctic should be melting as well?
It is winter in the Southern hemisphere.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is online now  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:06   #374
Registered User
 
SailOar's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 616
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
True, but adding billions of people to the planet may be....
If you think it important to add billions of people to the equation, then you also need to subtract the billions of bison, wildebeest, fish, etc, that humans have killed and displaced. Then add all the cows and pigs and chickens that humans keep.

My understanding is that all those factors are taken into account.
__________________
The greatest deception men suffer is their own opinions.
- Leonardo da Vinci -
SailOar is offline  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:08   #375
Registered User
 
jackdale's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,527
Images: 1
Re: Ocean acidifcation .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc1 View Post
And this is a problem why exactly?
Th sequestering of that CO2 resulted in a Goldilocks world where homo sapiens evolved and the their food crops were domesticated.

The last time CO2 levels were at the current level both global temperatures and the oceans were significantly higher.
__________________

__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Star in the Ocean - A lonely and his beloved (the star) are crossing the ocean Velanera General Sailing Forum 18 21-12-2017 05:22
For Sale: Ocean 60 - Southern Ocean Shipyards for sale Ocean Viking Classifieds Archive 2 12-05-2013 04:30
Volvo Ocean racers take a rain check on the Indian ocean sarafina Cruising News & Events 7 06-02-2012 13:52
World Ocean Database and World Ocean Atlas Series GordMay The Library 2 15-01-2007 21:14
Cruising the Indian Ocean Bob Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 1 29-03-2003 09:46

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.