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Old 05-12-2019, 20:42   #16
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

The petty use of plastics especially when used for packaging and cheap goods with limited service life spans is a disgrace and is what this era will be remembered for. Future generations will be forced to wade through plastic soup and clean up foreshores of plastic junk for centuries to come. The crazy thing is that natural and more readily recyclable materials were used in the past and can replace much of the plastic used in these applications. IMO, the only future use for garbage dump and ocean strained plastics will be burning for heat and energy.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:12   #17
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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The petty use of plastics especially when used for packaging and cheap goods with limited service life spans is a disgrace ...
Indeed. A very important distinction, which might suggest some more easily accomplished prevention targets of opportunity (low hanging fruit).
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:30   #18
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pirate Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

Decades ago it was my opinion that all fossil (used oils etc), toxic, organic waste and textiles should be shredded and mixed then pumped into the oil wells as they were drained.
Instead of oil tankers returning empty they would be filled with the liquefied waste which could then be used instead of sea water to pump out the oil.
But folk keep saying.. Its to expensive.
Compared to what.???
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:11   #19
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

A Few Quick Facts:
- Every year, Canadians throw away over 3 million tonnes of plastic waste. This represents up to $8 billion per year in lost value and wastes valuable resources and energy.
- About one-third of the plastics used in Canada are for single-use or short-lived products and packaging. In fact, in Canada, up to - 15 billion plastic bags are used every year and close to 57 million straws are used daily.
- Every year, 640,000 tons of abandoned, lost or discarded fishing gear enters our oceans. It can persist in the environment for up to 600 years.
- Every year, one million birds and over 100,000 sea mammals worldwide are injured or die when they mistake plastic for food or become entangled.
- Globally, one garbage truckload of plastic waste enters the ocean every minute, and that amount is increasing steadily.
- Over the last 25 years, nearly 800,000 volunteers have removed over 1.3 million kilograms of trash from across Canada’s shorelines through Ocean Wise and World Wildlife Fund’s Great Canadian Shoreline Cleanup program, supported by the Government of Canada. The most commonly littered items on our shorelines are single-use or short-lived products, many made of plastics.

Canada to ban harmful single-use plastics and hold companies responsible for plastic waste
Press Release, June 10, 2019 ➥ https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releas...es-responsible

In Canada, Montreal banned plastic bags in 2018, but the ban has reportedly been ignored. PEI’s Plastic Bag Reduction Act, which prohibits businesses from providing plastic bags to customers, came into effect on July 1, 2019. Vancouver also proposed its own ban, which was set to take effect on June 1, but postponed it last April until 2020. Tofino and Ucluelet, B.C. launched their own ban in June.

In 2002, Bangladesh became the first country to ban plastic bags. Last year, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced his intention to eliminate single-use plastics nation-wide by 2022; a host of Indian states and cities have already instituted their own bans. Since 2017, Kenya has had the strictest plastic bag ban in the world: anyone selling, producing or using plastic bags will risk imprisonment of up to four years or fines of $40,000. Single-use plastic bags have also been banned in New Zealand as of July 1, 2019.

There have also been smaller-scale bans proposed. Plastic bans have been implemented and experimented with in cities like Seattle, Boston, Washington, D.C. and San Diego, as well as U.S. states like Vermont, California, Maryland and Maine.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:33   #20
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
The crazy thing is that natural and more readily recyclable materials were used in the past and can replace much of the plastic used in these applications. IMO, the only future use for garbage dump and ocean strained plastics will be burning for heat and energy.

I see no problem returning to 1950ís packaging, In fact I prefer it. Trying to open a plastic sleeve of saltines or open a plastic cereal bag without ripping it is nearly impossible but the wax paper opened nicely along the waxed seal.

Iíll disagree with the burning plastic thing though, I believe burning most plastic releases chemicals that you donít want in the air, in fact Iíve read articles where the poorer of the world cooks over it, and it makes them sick.
Plastic can be recycled, itís just not economical to do so, itís sort of like gold mining, the miners donít move on when there is no more gold, they move on when the amount left isnít worth mining.
I bet one day all this plastic waste will be a raw material and have value. Just like old gold mines are re-opened when the price of gold goes up.
In my opinion any Government mandates as to the environment wonít work very well. If you want something to work, and work well ensure there is money in it, then you will have companies lining up for a piece of that money.
Business and greed go together like ham and eggs, if you want business to change if you cater to that greed they will be enthusiastic.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:51   #21
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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I see no problem returning to 1950ís packaging, In fact I prefer it. Trying to open a plastic sleeve of saltines or open a plastic cereal bag without ripping it is nearly impossible but the wax paper opened nicely along the waxed seal.
I don't believe waxed paper is recyclable. Banning single use plastic is low-hanging fruit for politicians - it doesn't balance the pros and cons of the alternatives against those of the "bad" plastics. There are probably many instances where continued use of plastic makes more sense, but could be offset by a focussed recycling effort.

BTW, other day at work I go by the 'recycling station' we have in place of a garbage can. 4 bins - paper, recyclables (cans, plastics), organics and waste. Janitor is there, dumping them all into 1 big plastic garbage bag
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:54   #22
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

As we travelled down island from Florida to Grenada we were happy to find some places, even in the Bahamas, that served food on real plates and glasses. No plastic and no styrofoam.

Puerto Rico, at least the places we went, no plastic bags! Bring your own reusable earth friendly bags. Other islands as well, I must take better notes heading north.

Now in Grenada and yesterday I had to visit a doctor for a sinus infection. I was given a couple of scripts, went to the pharmacy, low and behold! No plastics, my pills were counted out and put in little paper 2" X 3" envelopes. The paper directions with dispensing info was stuck to the outside and away I went.

Amazing to me these countries that may not be considered 1st world are doing much better than the true 1st world countries are doing to combat the plastic invasion.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:14   #23
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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Banning single use plastic is low-hanging fruit for politicians - it doesn't balance the pros and cons of the alternatives against those of the "bad" plastics. There are probably many instances where continued use of plastic makes more sense, but could be offset by a focussed recycling effort.

But it's RIPE low-hanging fruit... there isn't any excuse other than economic or convenience for most of the single-use plastics we pitch daily.


There's a place for recycling programs, but the dirty secret is that consumer-based recycling is mostly industry shifting the responsibilities for their self-serving practices onto the consumer. The best plan is to not be creating and using single-use plastics if there's not a compelling reason to do so.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:22   #24
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

Then there is this
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...gy-make-sense/
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:42   #25
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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But it's RIPE low-hanging fruit... there isn't any excuse other than economic or convenience for most of the single-use plastics we pitch daily.
Really? Has there been a study that compares, say, plastic grocery bags to paper and cloth? Or those mixed plastic/cloth reusable bags they sell in the grocery stores for a buck? Would a biodegradeable plastic grocery bag, that finds a second life as a garbage bag be better in the long run than one of those reusable bags that gets used for a year then ends up in a landfill?
I honestly don't know the answer, but I don't think anyone is asking the question before enacting these bans. I'd like for the politicians to ensure that the "great new idea" isn't worse than the status quo.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:55   #26
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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Really? Has there been a study that compares, say, plastic grocery bags to paper and cloth? Or those mixed plastic/cloth reusable bags they sell in the grocery stores for a buck? Would a biodegradeable plastic grocery bag, that finds a second life as a garbage bag be better in the long run than one of those reusable bags that gets used for a year then ends up in a landfill?
I honestly don't know the answer, but I don't think anyone is asking the question before enacting these bans. I'd like for the politicians to ensure that the "great new idea" isn't worse than the status quo.
I dunno about others, but I don't recall us throwing away a reusable shopping bag yet. Occasionally we may lose one, and i'm sure they eventually become unusable, but most of ours are 5+ years old and still work as designed.

Very few, politicians most of all, maybe, are capable of grasping such an issue like plastics pollution in its entirety. At this time of denial, indifference and "alternative" facts on just about any subject, small actions are just about all that's possible. I suspect that if there was an ironclad case for staying with single-use plastic bags, their manufacturers would have brought it to our attention.

In our area, reusable bags are encouraged, and the grocery stores charge a nickel apiece if you still want their plastic bags. Seems to have reduced their usage significantly, though they are still free from many other retailers.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:56   #27
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Decades ago it was my opinion that all fossil (used oils etc), toxic, organic waste and textiles should be shredded and mixed then pumped into the oil wells as they were drained.
Instead of oil tankers returning empty they would be filled with the liquefied waste which could then be used instead of sea water to pump out the oil.
But folk keep saying.. Its to expensive.
Compared to what.???

This was never true. (I have worked at disposal wells)


Imagine pumping waste down into a very fine sandstone sponge. In fact, the waste pumped down hole must be very well filtered of solids to prevent clogging the well structure.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:00   #28
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
A Few Quick Facts:
- Every year, Canadians throw away over 3 million tonnes of plastic waste. This represents up to $8 billion per year in lost value and wastes valuable resources and energy.
- About one-third of the plastics used in Canada are for single-use or short-lived products and packaging. In fact, in Canada, up to - 15 billion plastic bags are used every year and close to 57 million straws are used daily.
- Every year, 640,000 tons of abandoned, lost or discarded fishing gear enters our oceans. It can persist in the environment for up to 600 years.
- Every year, one million birds and over 100,000 sea mammals worldwide are injured or die when they mistake plastic for food or become entangled.
- Globally, one garbage truckload of plastic waste enters the ocean every minute, and that amount is increasing steadily.
- Over the last 25 years, nearly 800,000 volunteers have removed over 1.3 million kilograms of trash from across Canada’s shorelines through Ocean Wise and World Wildlife Fund’s Great Canadian Shoreline Cleanup program, supported by the Government of Canada. The most commonly littered items on our shorelines are single-use or short-lived products, many made of plastics.

Canada to ban harmful single-use plastics and hold companies responsible for plastic waste
Press Release, June 10, 2019 ➥ https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releas...es-responsible

In Canada, Montreal banned plastic bags in 2018, but the ban has reportedly been ignored. PEI’s Plastic Bag Reduction Act, which prohibits businesses from providing plastic bags to customers, came into effect on July 1, 2019. Vancouver also proposed its own ban, which was set to take effect on June 1, but postponed it last April until 2020. Tofino and Ucluelet, B.C. launched their own ban in June.

In 2002, Bangladesh became the first country to ban plastic bags. Last year, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced his intention to eliminate single-use plastics nation-wide by 2022; a host of Indian states and cities have already instituted their own bans. Since 2017, Kenya has had the strictest plastic bag ban in the world: anyone selling, producing or using plastic bags will risk imprisonment of up to four years or fines of $40,000. Single-use plastic bags have also been banned in New Zealand as of July 1, 2019.

There have also been smaller-scale bans proposed. Plastic bans have been implemented and experimented with in cities like Seattle, Boston, Washington, D.C. and San Diego, as well as U.S. states like Vermont, California, Maryland and Maine.

But are single-use plastic bags the demon we try to make them? The Danish government disagrees. They say they are reasonably efficient IF you use them a second time as trash bags. The obvious is not always right and it is not always so simple.

https://www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publicatio...93614-73-4.pdf


For example, neighbors with dogs use them. Ban them and they will be buying bags! I use them in the house and on the boat. But I turn them down when I don't need them (small purchase) and try to take my own. So no single answer.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:01   #29
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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I dunno about others, but I don't recall us throwing away a reusable shopping bag yet. Occasionally we may lose one, and i'm sure they eventually become unusable, but most of ours are 5+ years old and still work as designed.

Very few, politicians most of all, maybe, are capable of grasping such an issue like plastics pollution in its entirety. At this time of denial, indifference and "alternative" facts on just about any subject, small actions are just about all that's possible. I suspect that if there was an ironclad case for staying with single-use plastic bags, their manufacturers would have brought it to our attention.

In our area, reusable bags are encouraged, and the grocery stores charge a nickel apiece if you still want their plastic bags. Seems to have reduced their usage significantly, though they are still free from many other retailers.
In the city of Tacoma ( 20 miles or so ) just south of seattle does the nickle a bag but not plastics they instead sell are paper bags with carry handles on them .

Ever carry a gallon of milk in a paper bag on a hot humid day? It usually doesnt end well.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:05   #30
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Re: Microplastics update, the news is not good

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In the city of Tacoma ( 20 miles or so ) just south of seattle does the nickle a bag but not plastics they instead sell are paper bags with carry handles on them .

Ever carry a gallon of milk in a paper bag on a hot humid day? It usually doesnt end well.

But you have your reusable poly shopping bags with you, and/or a knapsack or dufflebag, so it's not a problem, right?
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