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21-02-2010, 13:42
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#46
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CF Adviser Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter
Oh, boy. Religion. Prediction. The End. Fun stuff, so long as it comes with a bottle of Herradura Anejo.
I find myself particularly amused with the degree of confidence people have about their chosen deity's revelations. So, let's see: At the very most, all of these revelations have come about during a period of time that encompasses no more than .000001% of just Earth's history. Earth, one planet around one star, of which there might be between 200 to 400 billion just in "our" galaxy; of which there may be 500 billion (or more) galaxies in the universe (or at least the part we can see, so far). If we assume that ours is an average solar system of 8 planets (sorry, Pluto), then that's 1.2 septillion planets.
And, somehow, we've got the absolute truth for all things, in all places, at all times? In English, no less? (or, Latin; or, Arabic; or, Hindi; take your pick)
Anybody got some lemon, and salt?
ID
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Find that a bit hard to swallow, ID?
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
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21-02-2010, 13:56
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#47
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,318
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That's the reason for the Anejo!
ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter
Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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21-02-2010, 14:23
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
Boat: Between boats
Posts: 474
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Or the mayan found out that the empire was only two years from it's doom, concluded his work was pointless, threw down his tools and went cruising in a canoe.
I'll follow his example now. Not in a canoe though.
I'll stay out of the religious discussion, although my fingers are itching
/Hampus
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21-02-2010, 15:26
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,857
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What I thought was really interesting was the mathematical precision that the Mayans achieved without paper much less a computer. If I want to figure something out an electrical circuit or a plumbing problem I take a pencil and an eraser. They figured out things that are beyond my understanding without the use of the internet. Unless maybe the voices inpeoples heads are leftovers of an ancient internet. Dec 21, 2012 is the occasion of a recurring astonomical event where the earth is tilted and pointing towards the middle of some solar system. I wouldn't be able to see stars without my glasses.
__________________
Fair Winds,
Charlie
Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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21-02-2010, 16:01
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,409
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Well I say go ahead an max out those credit cards just in case
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21-02-2010, 16:07
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Yes, quite interesting how much astronomical knowledge many ancient civilizations had, and how this knowledge got collected (or transferred, but this unlikely) in isolated places of the planet. And all this without telescopes, computers ...
b.
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21-02-2010, 16:21
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#52
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CF Adviser Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Dec 21, 2012 is the occasion of a recurring astonomical event where the earth is tilted and pointing towards the middle of some solar system.
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Well, not exactly, Charlie. The 23.5* tilt of the earth on its axis is the source of the seasons, but it has nothing to do with the 21 December 2012 phenomenon.
Earth is one of a handful of planets circling a star (the Sun) way out on one spiral arm of the Milky Way Galaxy. Just as the planets orbit the Sun, the Sun orbits the center of the Galaxy, a point that appears approximately in the middle of the constellation Sagittarius as viewed from this planet.
But the path of our solar system (the Sun and its orbiting bodies) around the center of the galaxy is not perfectly consistent with the galactic ecliptic; that is, out system oscillates both above and below the ecliptic over time, because the orbital plane of our solar system is tilted in relation to the galactic ecliptic. It is similar, though not as extreme, as the eccentric orbit of Pluto around the Sun itself.
What is about to occur - some claim it will happen on 21 December 2012 - is that our solar system will be re-crossing the plane of the galactic ecliptic. Whether or not that is accurate, and whether or not it coincides with any particular event is debatable, at least beforehand.
Some astronomers have pooh-poohed the very idea that this "crossing" occurs at one moment in time; I have read that, given the vastness of space and geologic time, it actually takes approximately 200 earth years for our solar system to accomplish such a crossing.
As always, worrying about what is beyond one's ability to do anything about is pointless. It only results in (additional) stress. It has been said that worry is wasted emotion - if it's prompted by something you can do nothing to alter, then worrying about it is non-productive. If it's prompted by something you can alter, then stop worrying and get busy creating the necessary change.
Either way, wasting time worrying achieves nothing.
TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
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21-02-2010, 16:25
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,878
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Thanks for the Astronomy lessons Tao!
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".
Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
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21-02-2010, 16:33
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Annapolis, Bahamas
Boat: 1983 Gulfstar 36
Posts: 1,253
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Yikes! it worries me that these types of threads are the longest. Do we cruisers need day jobs? The myan calander was done on cicular plate. Perhaps they just need a biit more dameter
__________________
Will & Muffin
Lucy the dog
"Yes, well.. perhaps some more wine" (Julia Child)
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21-02-2010, 17:15
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#55
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,318
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A 2005 Gallup Poll revealed the following percentages of adult Americans who believe in:
Extrasensory perception, or ESP
41 That houses can be haunted
37 Ghosts/that spirits of dead people can come back in certain places/situations
32 Telepathy/communication between minds without using traditional senses
31 Clairvoyance/the power of the mind to know the past and predict the future
26 Astrology, or that the position of the stars and planets can affect people's lives
25 That people can communicate mentally with someone who has died
21 Witches
21 Reincarnation, that is, the rebirth of the soul in a new body after death
20 Channeling/allowing a 'spirit-being' to temporarily assume control of body
9
73% of Americans believe in at last one of the above. If you also include those who "aren't sure about" the item, each one increases by 12 to 29%. Most of these numbers are pretty stable over the preceding 15 years.
Source: http://home.sandiego.edu/~baber/logic/gallup.html
It behooves us all to never over-estimate the likelihood that a randomly encountered, otherwise typical-appearing adult American is actually using reason and critical thinking in whatever is being discussed.
And, for you folks from other countries? Don't get too much on your high-horse -- the numbers are similar in most developed countries and some are actually higher.
Still want to cut educational funding?
ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter
Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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21-02-2010, 18:14
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones
Well, not exactly, Charlie. The 23.5* tilt of the earth on its axis is the source of the seasons, but it has nothing to do with the 21 December 2012 phenomenon.
Earth is one of a handful of planets circling a star (the Sun) way out on one spiral arm of the Milky Way Galaxy. Just as the planets orbit the Sun, the Sun orbits the center of the Galaxy, a point that appears approximately in the middle of the constellation Sagittarius as viewed from this planet.
But the path of our solar system (the Sun and its orbiting bodies) around the center of the galaxy is not perfectly consistent with the galactic ecliptic; that is, out system oscillates both above and below the ecliptic over time, because the orbital plane of our solar system is tilted in relation to the galactic ecliptic. It is similar, though not as extreme, as the eccentric orbit of Pluto around the Sun itself.
What is about to occur - some claim it will happen on 21 December 2012 - is that our solar system will be re-crossing the plane of the galactic ecliptic. Whether or not that is accurate, and whether or not it coincides with any particular event is debatable, at least beforehand.
Some astronomers have pooh-poohed the very idea that this "crossing" occurs at one moment in time; I have read that, given the vastness of space and geologic time, it actually takes approximately 200 earth years for our solar system to accomplish such a crossing.
As always, worrying about what is beyond one's ability to do anything about is pointless. It only results in (additional) stress. It has been said that worry is wasted emotion - if it's prompted by something you can do nothing to alter, then worrying about it is non-productive. If it's prompted by something you can alter, then stop worrying and get busy creating the necessary change.
Either way, wasting time worrying achieves nothing.
TaoJones
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You missed the point entirely Tao. The Maya were calculating different calendars based upon 144,000 day periods named baktun.
" A baktun (properly b'ak'tun) is 20 katun cycles of the ancient Maya Long Count Calendar. It contains 144,000 days, equivalent to 394.25 tropical years. The Classic period of Maya civilization occurred during the 8th and 9th baktuns of the current calendrical cycle. The current (13th) baktun will end, or be completed, on 13.0.0.0.0 (December 21, 2012 using the GMT correlation" as quoted from wikipedia.
Even with a paper calendar on my desk I have a hard time keeping track of what day it is in a month. The Maya were calculating astonomical events prior to the invention of calculators and without readily available paper. I think that feat in impressive. I don't know if the galactic ecliptic will occur on that particuilar day but it is a possibility. I find that type of calculation very impressive. Not only that but they were able to describe these calendars using stone tablets. They also calculated solar and lunar eclipses. They had an understanding of the heavens that is much more complex than mine and I would presume most peoples.
They also have a number of buildings that line up the sun on particuilar solstices
Maya Astronomy
I don't believe in the end of the world scenarios but I am impressed by the complex calculations that were needed to identify when an eclipse was going to occur, buildings that are lined up to show the sun on a particuilar solar or lunar event. Paper -- in my opinion -- is one of the most important inventions of the modern age b/c it allowed the transfer of knowledge to occur easily. If we had to carve our opinions into a stone tablet to get this information on the internet surfing the web would not be as fun. The Mayans made these calculations prior to the widespread use of paper.
__________________
Fair Winds,
Charlie
Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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21-02-2010, 18:18
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Skippack, PA
Boat: Lagoon L42
Posts: 162
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I’d never trust prognostications from a culture that didn’t have “the vision” to see a future that included a WHEEL or found it necessary to sacrifice children!
I did though enjoy the ruins at Tikal!
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21-02-2010, 19:27
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,878
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Or basically disappear from the face of the earth.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".
Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
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21-02-2010, 19:43
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,042
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The part I found fascinating was the ability to predict the progression of the constellations so far into the future, and there is some speculation about being able to observe the stars through a bore hole from underground during the day time, which would be interesting to see first hand. How can one not wonder about the wonder of it all?
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
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21-02-2010, 19:59
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: Morgan, O.I. 33' Dutch Treat
Posts: 414
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They disappeared because they knew the end was coming so they made a spaceship and went to Mars.
Dutch
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