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Old 03-03-2019, 21:24   #721
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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I'm against voter registration systems that, by design, unfairly burden groups who haven't traditionally supported those imposing them.

Are you saying that one must necessarily experience voter fraud before imposing any system (sensible or otherwise) to prevent it? Since the US has not recently experienced the effects of voter fraud, what's the problem then? Other than those pesky bottom-dwellers who keep voting Democrat?

Where are you on the political interference from dark money PACs and Russian assistance meddling?
This isn't what this thread is about, and I'm not game to help you facilitate another thread's demise with your partisan hatred. See you over at the CC thread . . . maybe.
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Old 03-03-2019, 21:28   #722
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Taxes and Weather Boys... Unsubscribed
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Old 03-03-2019, 21:36   #723
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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So… the conclusion was that there was no widespread voter fraud here, certainly none that had any impact on the election. This is what I’ve been saying; whenever this claim is tested, it doesn't stand up to critical study or review.

I’m sure there is some level of fraud in all elections, but to suggest it is significant, or widespread, or even new, simply does not comport with the facts.

So, a county counting way more votes than the total number of registered voters in the county doesn't mean anything to you?
As I remember, (faintly)it was something like 109% in King County, the liberal tail wagging the dog of the whole state.


That answer of yours reminds me of the Iraqi stooge for Sadaam Hussein who said,


"The Americans are NOT at the airport !"
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Old 03-03-2019, 21:48   #724
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Yea they do.
Yes, of course you're right. Don't you think they deserve a bigger voice in government since they are paying for it?
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Old 03-03-2019, 21:50   #725
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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So, a county counting way more votes than the total number of registered voters in the county doesn't mean anything to you?
As I remember, (faintly)it was something like 109% in King County, the liberal tail wagging the dog of the whole state.


That answer of yours reminds me of the Iraqi stooge for Sadaam Hussein who said,


"The Americans are NOT at the airport !"
Don't confuse them with the facts.
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Old 03-03-2019, 21:53   #726
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Yes, of course you're right. Don't you think they deserve a bigger voice in government since they are paying for it?
You miss L-E that much already??
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Old 04-03-2019, 00:01   #727
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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So, a county counting way more votes than the total number of registered voters in the county doesn't mean anything to you?
As I remember, (faintly)it was something like 109% in King County, the liberal tail wagging the dog of the whole state.

That answer of yours reminds me of the Iraqi stooge for Sadaam Hussein who said,

"The Americans are NOT at the airport !"
Senor, I just read the link you provided. It concluded in the courts where they found the claims of massive voter fraud were unfounded. They reversed 5 votes.

kmacdonald, those are the facts. Hope you’re not confused.

… I don’t get your Hussein analogy. Lost in translation?
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Old 04-03-2019, 00:21   #728
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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...Canada, on the other hand, requires an ID (or verifiable alternative) at the time of voting according to your post. So my question is why you feel that the same reasons for not endorsing nationwide ID in the US -- lack of evidence of voter fraud and the risk of voter suppression -- don't also apply in Canada? Isn't it just a valid way of instilling confidence in the electoral process, whether widespread fraud is occurring or not? Don't you think that otherwise valid concerns over disenfranchisement could be reasonably addressed without dispensing with a basic ID requirement that is required for so may other activities in our lives?
Yes, in Canada there is a requirement for ID, or some verification, which can include a personal declaration. Like I said, Iím not opposing the idea of identification of citizenship. I support some sort of measure, which is why I said I was surprised to hear there are some states where no measures are in place.

So, youíre saying I could walk into one of these states, and cast a ballot? I find this hard to believe, but if that is the case, then a change should likely be made.

I am not in a position to know the state of all your various state requirements. But whatever they currently are, we can say one thing with great certainty: The status quo has not resulted in any meaningful amount of voter fraud. Maybe it will in the future, but not to date. So, if there is call to increase voter ID requirements, it must be based on a different concern.

It could very well be that perceptions have shifted regarding this issue. It could be that the citizenry now wants voter fraud levels to be lower than the current insignificant levels. Or it could be there is a concern voter fraud will increase in future elections. Either could be valid reasons for change.

But these do not appear to be the justifications offered ó or have I missed something?
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:14   #729
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Senor, I just read the link you provided. It concluded in the courts where they found the claims of massive voter fraud were unfounded. They reversed 5 votes.

kmacdonald, those are the facts. Hope youíre not confused.

Ö I donít get your Hussein analogy. Lost in translation?
Well of course they did. Don't want to spoil the illusion of fair elections. How many total votes were cast in that county? 10?
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:02   #730
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

The elections in the US are often extremely close and decided by a handful of votes. To say voter fraud isn't a problem ignores the law and sanctity of voting and the rule of democracy. Shall we quit prosecuting murder since there are 7.5 billion people in the world? EVERY vote counts and EVERY person counts.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:02   #731
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

A national voter I.D. seems innocuous enough, until someone visualises an official saying "papers please". I mention this, only partly, in jest.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:14   #732
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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A national voter I.D. seems innocuous enough, until someone visualises an official saying "papers please". I mention this, only partly, in jest.
OMG. You just equated voter ID to Nazis? I can't believe you did that Gord. Don't you think that's a little irrational? Actually ludicrous?
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:15   #733
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Have we finished with this thread?

Maybe its time to put to bed.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:46   #734
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Although about the vaccination vs anti-vax debate, this article’s thesis might apply to almost any public policy debate. Is the author’s contention, that “the end justifies the means” legitimate?
Never? Almost never? Sometimes? Almost always? Always?

Anti-vaxxers fight information with anecdote and, unfortunately, it works. So let's hijack their method.
“... Facts don't move people the way that an appeal to emotion — fear, specifically — does...
... Some might be uncomfortable with pro-vaccination efforts using the same appeal-to-emotion, anecdotal tactics as do anti-vaxxers. But offending our collective polite sensibilities matters less than herd immunity and the suffering of children who have little to no say in their own health care ...
... Anti-vaxxers know how to turn suffering into propaganda: to use anecdote to stoke fear. Fighting fear with information doesn't work as well, unfortunately, as fighting fear with fear. Anti-vaxxers have graciously already given us the formula. All we have to do is follow it.”

“Don't try to reason with vaccine-skeptic parents. Scare them” ~ by Robyn Urback
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/vacc...reak-1.5040997


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OMG. You just equated voter ID to Nazis? I can't believe you did that Gord. Don't you think that's a little irrational? Actually ludicrous?
I do think that's a little irrational, actually ludicrous.
But, unfortunately, that's how SOME people (not I) think (irrationally); they might see a "slippery slope.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:57   #735
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Yes Gord, the perception is as bad as the fact. It's etched in stone.
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