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Old 28-02-2019, 16:35   #556
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

[QUOTE]
Today, President Trump and his administration lie to the American people on a scale that is unimaginable, on matters as trivial as the crowd size at Trump's inauguration, and as important as the scope of Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. What's more, Team Trump has declared that a functioning free press is the "enemy of the American people," and threatened other norms, from an independent justice system to voting rights, that are essential to democracy — and without democracy, journalism is useless.

Rising authoritarianism is a time to toss "on one hand, on the other hand" out the window. Journalists today have the same responsibilities that Cronkite had in 1968, to listen to every side, to be fair, and to always remember that "the more information, the better." But the ultimate responsibility is to the higher truths that — just like Cronkite's Saigon — come under daily mortar fire in Donald Trump's warped vision of America.[QUOTE]


What a steaming pile of bilge. You need quit watching MSNBC...
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Old 28-02-2019, 17:02   #557
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Good point.
I'm curious if you read Lara Logan's words, a South African native, regarding the US media.
Both CNN and Fox have become opposite sides of a silly circus, imo. My first go-to is actually the foreign press.
Not just the US media, most journalist in the western world leans left. As far as I know, this has always been the case … certainly going back the last 1/2 century or more. Given the psychological makeup of liberals vs conservatives, it actually makes sense that this is the case.

BTW, she repeatedly makes this claim of "85 percent of journalists are registered Democrats.” I can’t find a source for this datapoint. Does anyone know?

senormechanico, while John’s rhetoric is a bit thick, his essential point that Trump lies at unprecedented levels is demonstrably true. While most politicians lie, I am aware of none who do (have done) it so frequently.
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Old 28-02-2019, 18:03   #558
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Not just the US media, most journalist in the western world leans left. As far as I know, this has always been the case … certainly going back the last 1/2 century or more. Given the psychological makeup of liberals vs conservatives, it actually makes sense that this is the case.

BTW, she repeatedly makes this claim of "85 percent of journalists are registered Democrats.” I can’t find a source for this datapoint. Does anyone know?

senormechanico, while John’s rhetoric is a bit thick, his essential point that Trump lies at unprecedented levels is demonstrably true. While most politicians lie, I am aware of none who do (have done) it so frequently.
I thought that was Gord's political rhetoric? The anti-Trump song has long since started to all sound the same.

Anyway, I wouldn't attribute psychological reasons for most journalists leaning left over the fact that most media outlets are owned by left-leaning people and therefore hire like-minded employees. I have found much less tolerance for opposing views coming from the Left rather than the Right for quite awhile now. I don't understand how people are giving more than lip service to confronting their own bias when they're so opposed to hearing contrary views. Sometimes I don't think they even realize there is another side, or the other side has been so demonized that they're afraid. This is a real problem no matter what side you're on.
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Old 28-02-2019, 18:04   #559
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Here’s a simple test. Open up your local paper, or one of the serious national ones. Read the news stories — not the editorials, not the “analysis” or “commentary”; the news.

Now, did the reporter report the facts? Were all, or at least many sides, of the issue presented? Was it reasonably accurate? If something was amiss, was it due to some sort of liberal or conservative bias, or was it due to other failings. Remember, journalism is history on the run. Perfection is rare.

Read ALL the stories, not just the political ones, or the ones you are interested in. Do this honestly, and hopefully with full recognition of your own bias. You will find that most news is still done to the standards I am outlining.

I’m not at all saying there is no bias. And there are areas such as political coverage, where bias is more prevalent, but there’s a lot more news than just politics.

BTW, I agree that much of mainstream media leans left, much like much of academia. But this is nothing new. Good news reporting happens despite these biases, much like good science operates despite our human failings.

Quantifying bias in media is highly subjective, and fraught with pitfalls, not least of which is the fact that no large media outlet is a monolith. For example, Fox produces excellent news, as does the NY Times. It’s their editorial that I avoid.

Pew did an analysis a few years back. It places various major USA news outlets on a scale based on surveys of their viewers, so it is a backwards way of getting at bias. But again, none of these are monolithic outlets. What the audience it tuning into (news? Editorial? Ads? All??) is unidentified.

Ideological Placement of Each Source’s Audience | Pew Research Center
Leans left? Really!!!!!! Did you know 26 out of 27 professors in the northeast are democrats? (I believe that figure to be correct, but going by memory) That's outright discrimination. Academia also thought "diversity" was good until the courts ruled it discrimination.
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Old 28-02-2019, 18:07   #560
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

If you want factual news, listen to Al Jazeera.
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Old 28-02-2019, 18:14   #561
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Except on the topic of impunity and corruption in the UAE.

Same with BBC, their domestic coverage has its blind spots, but of the US scene pretty well fact-based.
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Old 28-02-2019, 18:20   #562
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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If you want factual news, listen to Al Jazeera.
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Old 28-02-2019, 18:36   #563
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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...Anyway, I wouldn't attribute psychological reasons for most journalists leaning left over the fact that most media outlets are owned by left-leaning people and therefore hire like-minded employees...
Left-leaning owners?
NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, and Telemundo are under NBC Universal and owned by Comcast.
ABC, ESPN, Marvel, Disney Studios, and A&E networks are owned by The Walt Disney Corporation.
CNN, HBO, and Warner Brothers are owned by Turner Broadcasting which is owned by Time Warner (AT&T's WarnerMedia).
Fox News, Sky News, and National Geographic Partners are under 21st Century Fox (renamed from News Corp) and controlled by Rupert Murdoch.
CBS is owned by the CBS Corporation but the majority control is owned by National Amusements under owner billionaire Sumner Redstone.
Al Jazeera media network is owned by the government of Qatar. It’s funded through loans, rather than government grant.
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Old 28-02-2019, 18:51   #564
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Yes corporate owned media is not going to help dismantle capitalism, not any more "liberal" left than the Clintons or Pelosi, neo-liberal at best.

Great piece on AOC here
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...erview-797214/
I think pretty obvious she's not playing politics-as-business, coming from deeply held principles and shooting for the kind of fundamental reforms needed in all our important institutions.
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Old 28-02-2019, 19:28   #565
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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I thought that was Gord's political rhetoric? The anti-Trump song has long since started to all sound the same.
My apologies Gord/John. Misattribution on my part.

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Anyway, I wouldn't attribute psychological reasons for most journalists leaning left over the fact that most media outlets are owned by left-leaning people and therefore hire like-minded employees.
The reason I suggest this is that psychological makeup of individuals is usually defined in terms of some range of core characteristics. Various analysis have identified measurable differences in “liberal” and “conservative” minds.

Phrased in terms of moral foundation theory (Haidt, et. al), liberals exhibit more openness to new ideas and new experiences.

Haidt (from his TED talk on The moral roots of liberals and conservatives:
Quote:
"It really is a fact that liberals are much higher than conservatives on a major personality trait called openness to experience. People who are high in openness to experience just crave novelty, variety, diversity, new ideas, travel. People low on it like things that are familiar, that are safe and dependable.”
Liberals are also high on the Care and Fairness moral foundations. They score low on the other three foundations: Loyalty, Authority (or respect), and Sanctity. Interestingly, conservative folks tend to score rather evenly across the five scales.

Openness to new ideas, combined with a tingly spidey sense aimed at caring for others and fairness, all sound like traits most journalists exhibit.

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I have found much less tolerance for opposing views coming from the Left rather than the Right for quite awhile now. I don't understand how people are giving more than lip service to confronting their own bias when they're so opposed to hearing contrary views. Sometimes I don't think they even realize there is another side, or the other side has been so demonized that they're afraid. This is a real problem no matter what side you're on.
Well, you have to admit this is highly subjective. I could certainly report the opposite. The real truth is there is plenty of intolerance from both sides of the spectrum.

But you’ve rephrased the central point in much of our discussion here; that too many of us are increasingly so embedded in our own ideological bubbles that we start to believe there is no other way of viewing the world.

I think this is seriously dangerous.

The five moral foundations:
  • Care: cherishing and protecting others; opposite of harm
  • Fairness or proportionality: rendering justice according to shared rules; opposite of cheating
  • Loyalty or ingroup: standing with your group, family, nation; opposite of betrayal
  • Authority or respect: submitting to tradition and legitimate authority; opposite of subversion
  • Sanctity or purity: abhorrence for disgusting things, foods, actions; opposite of degradation
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Old 28-02-2019, 19:32   #566
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Leans left? Really!!!!!! Did you know 26 out of 27 professors in the northeast are democrats? (I believe that figure to be correct, but going by memory) That's outright discrimination. Academia also thought "diversity" was good until the courts ruled it discrimination.
I’ve already written extensively here on CF about how negative the growing dominance of liberals over conservatives in academia. It is a very bad development.
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Old 28-02-2019, 19:57   #567
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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Al Jazeera media network is owned by the government of Qatar. It’s funded through loans, rather than government grant.
Ahhh....no.
Al Jazeera is funded by the Radical Islamists.
RT (Russia Today) has more credibility.
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Old 28-02-2019, 19:58   #568
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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The real truth is there is plenty of intolerance from both sides of the spectrum.
Definitely!
Intolerance does seem a bit odd coming from the left, though, and increasing. Take Berkeley, California, the iconic (ironic?) modern free speech birthplace in the US. In place of the lefty hippie love types who would join together in protest of war last century, we now have that side joining in protest to actively prevent speeches from certain people that they don't like. What a weird, confused modern twist.
I think Exile may have a point, and it may not be as subjective as you think.
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Old 28-02-2019, 20:01   #569
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

There have been more beatings of MAGA hat trump supporters in 2yrs than Hope and Change hat and Tee Shirt wearers in 8yrs. We see where the Hate is....its on the left....Green is the new Red remember.
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Old 28-02-2019, 20:11   #570
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Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

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There have been more beatings of MAGA hat trump supporters in 2yrs than Hope and Change hat and Tee Shirt wearers in 8yrs.
I assume that the referenced statistics on beatings do not include beatings by law enforcement.

I am not anti-law enforcement, just pro good statistics.
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