Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-01-2019, 12:14   #211
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 24,600
Images: 2
pirate Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
Most people in the US get their news from Facebook...
I thought it was Twitter..
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Click on the picture.
boatman61 is online now  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:42   #212
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,304
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
That doesn't make him a traitor but a patriot.
A "traitor to his class" was I'm sure intended to be complimentary by all but cliche mustache-twirling villain types, can't see anyone else seriously questioning his patriotism.

Without his reforms violent revolution would have been very likely.

And that process really risks throwing out the baby with the bathwater, losing whatever semblance of (yes republican moderated) democracy we've achieved.
__________________

john61ct is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:48   #213
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,304
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
He would, I believe, feel disappointed and sad at where things have gone.
Very much so.

As would Nixon, advocated for a subsidized national health plan, founded the EPA & OSHA, federally guaranteed minimum income, food stamps, Federally funded child care.

In a way our last somewhat reasonable President before criminal neoliberalism infected the zeitgeist.
john61ct is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 12:56   #214
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,790
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I thought it was Twitter..
It is now!
Exile is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 13:09   #215
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 8,214
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Given that humans are mostly influenced by emotion as you've pointed out, and given our herd-like, tribal tendencies, I don't see much hope in the way of positive change. In other words, I don't see enough people doing what you (correctly) suggest they do, namely stop "consuming" the nonsense to effect any change in media practices. If anything, it seems to be going the other way. …
My view is that it may be like pushing a stone up hill, but that doesn’t make it impossible. If we were only driven by our genetic heritage, murder, rape and pillage would be far more common. Broad civilization beyond the 150 clan members would be impossible. And abstract logical thinking that incorporates non-anecdotal evidence would rarely happen.

We’ve already seen ebbs and flows of this kind of “fake news” phenomena. The era of yellow journalism, which dates to the mid-1890s, is one classic example of when editorial ran thicker than news. We’ve seen the reverse as well. Watergate ushered in an era of quality investigative reporting.

So yes, I think it’s quite possible to reverse the current backslide. It takes effort and awareness on our part. It means being alert to how we are being manipulated by those in power (both political and economic). It means insisting on objective truth in areas where that is possible. And it means maintaining constant skepticism towards those who demonize their opponents.

When people start talking in either-or terms (black or white, good or evil), then be on your guard. This is a good sign you’re being manipulated.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 13:14   #216
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,790
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
A "traitor to his class" was I'm sure intended to be complimentary by all but cliche mustache-twirling villain types, can't see anyone else seriously questioning his patriotism.

Being a traitor to any group or entity presupposes some duty of loyalty to it. In the US anyway, we've never had a sustainable landed gentry or otherwise look too highly on any "class" of people who inherit their wealth across many generations. It's out there, of course, but I don't think there's fealty to it. But the upside to a president who has his own wealth is that it could make the presidency somewhat immune from corruption, and thus make it easier to take steps that upset the status quo. I get the complement often attributed to FDR, but simply don't see the world in terms of class conflict as some do.

Without his reforms violent revolution would have been very likely.

Says you (w/o qualification I might add ). And many historians & economists claim it was WWII that finally brought the country out of the Depression and full employment. You know, that evil, villainous, war-mongering military types in cahoots with the military-industrial complex.

And that process really risks throwing out the baby with the bathwater, losing whatever semblance of (yes republican moderated) democracy we've achieved.
"Moderation" being the key term here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
As would Nixon, advocated for a subsidized national health plan, founded the EPA & OSHA, federally guaranteed minimum income, food stamps, Federally funded child care.

In a way our last somewhat reasonable President before criminal neoliberalism infected the zeitgeist.
Huh, a plug for Nixon. Go figure . . . .
Exile is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 13:17   #217
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,790
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
When people start talking in either-or terms (black or white, good or evil), then be on your guard.
Always! And good advice. The world, and especially the US, is simply too large & diverse for black & white solutions to problems. I see ideology (from either side) as fitting that description. Moderation & compromise are the key.
Exile is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 14:04   #218
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 38,198
Images: 241
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Who Reads Newspapers?

The Wall Street Journal is read by the people who run the country.

–The New York Times is read by people who think they run the country.

–The Washington Post is read by people who think they ought to run the country.

–USA Today is read by people who think they ought to run the country but don’t understand The Washington Post.

–The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn’t mind running the country, if they could spare the time.

–The Boston Globe is read by people whose parents used to run the country.

–The New York Daily News is read by people who aren’t too sure who’s running the country.

–The New York Post is read by people who don’t care who’s running the country, as long as they do something scandalous.

The Wall Street Journal is read by the people who run the country.

–The New York Times is read by people who think they run the country.

–The Washington Post is read by people who think they ought to run the country.

–USA Today is read by people who think they ought to run the country but don’t understand The Washington Post.

–The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn’t mind running the country, if they could spare the time.

–The Boston Globe is read by people whose parents used to run the country.

–The New York Daily News is read by people who aren’t too sure who’s running the country.

–The New York Post is read by people who don’t care who’s running the country, as long as they do something scandalous.

–The San Francisco Chronicle is read by people who aren’t sure there is a country, or that a country is a good idea in the first place.

–The Miami Herald is read by people who are running another country.

–The Chicago Tribune is read by people who live in the Midwest, which readers of the other newspapers don’t think is part of the country.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 14:12   #219
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 2,223
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
Most people in the US get their news from Facebook...
What's your basis for "most"? And so what, if it's from a good source? I get a lot of sailing and local news on FB. This is neither bad nor fake. Some of the blatantly political "news" is make believe and those who share it are more likely to be older than 65 years, but overall we're generally better at not sharing junk than most might realize: https://wapo.st/2TELqyi

"Less than you think: Prevalence and predictors of fake news dissemination on Facebook" (Guess, Nagler and Tucker)

Science Advances**09 Jan 2019:
Vol. 5, no. 1, eaau4586
DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.aau4586

However, the study creates lots more questions than answers, which is what science is meant to do.
gamayun is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 14:31   #220
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 2,223
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

–The New York Times is read by people who think they run the country.

–The Washington Post is read by people who think they ought to run the country.

–The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn’t mind running the country, if they could spare the time

–The San Francisco Chronicle is read by people who aren’t sure there is a country, or that a country is a good idea in the first place.

Uh oh, these are my primary sources of news, which might explain a lot of my liberal bias although I work in an industry with very right-leaning thinking. Which is what really bugs me about these discussions when we use terms such as "the government" to explain away every time someone in power does something we don't like; or MSM to explain when a writer has an opinion we don't agree with; or left-wing or right-wing voters to explain a two-system party that hasn't figured out in a very long time what they stand for. I realize there are basic stereotypes, but the people who are the government and the MSM and within our political parties are just too nuanced; it weakens the arguments about these systems when we try to buttonhole everyone into certain categories for the sake of making our points.
gamayun is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 15:02   #221
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 6,217
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Facebook is the dominant social media platform. People read their FB news feed which is curated by a FB algorithm.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://...platforms-2018

Twitter is where most Americans get their anger...
transmitterdan is online now  
Old 13-01-2019, 16:49   #222
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 38,198
Images: 241
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
Facebook is the dominant social media platform. People read their FB news feed which is curated by a FB algorithm.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://...platforms-2018
"... Concerns about the inaccuracies in news on social media are prevalent even among those who say they prefer to get their news there – among this group, 42% say that they expect the news they see to largely be inaccurate ..."

And yet they go there for (inaccurate) news ... because it's easy.
What a comment on our society.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 18:08   #223
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 2,223
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
"... Concerns about the inaccuracies in news on social media are prevalent even among those who say they prefer to get their news there – among this group, 42% say that they expect the news they see to largely be inaccurate ..."

And yet they go there for (inaccurate) news ... because it's easy.
What a comment on our society.
I really don't get this. FB is just an aggregator tool. Some of the main news sources on mine are KPIX and KQED (San Fran), Vox, Scuttlebutt Sailing and Latitude 38, Alameda Sheriff's Office, and the Golden Globe Race (or whatever is the current race du jour). FB is the number one way I find out about local, state and federal meetings and new policies/projects. It used to be I had to go to every agency's website to see what new thing was coming up, which often meant missing things. And then there are the friends, which I will hide in a nano second if all they do is re-post links to crap stuff or if they rant. I don't friend professional colleagues. If ads or other feeds show up, I mark them as "don't show/irrelevant." It takes about 15 minutes to get through new FB posts, only reading the things that interest me so I am always kinda shocked when I hear that people don't use it for the value it can provide...
gamayun is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 18:28   #224
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 4,790
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Sign of our times?
Attached Images
 
Exile is offline  
Old 13-01-2019, 20:48   #225
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 6,217
Re: Intellectual Humility & the importance of knowing you might be wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
I really don't get this. FB is just an aggregator tool.

FB is much more than an aggregator. It basically puts its users in a giant echo chamber. The feed algorithm is designed to keep you reading it by showing what the algorithm thinks you want to see. That’s a recipe for seeing only one side of any concept or problem.

Since media sources get paid by the click they tend to supply content that feeds a particular segment (hopefully a big segment) of users what they want to hear/see/read. There is no place in FB for an article that makes everyone mad by suggesting several opposing views have legitimacy. The inevitable result is one sided reporting. And a divided country.

A one sided echo chamber is more destructive to a civil society than heroin, crack or meth. FB by design creates huge echo chambers and thus has the most users. Media companies have done the math and are gaming the FB algorithm because it gets them more subscribers/clicks. The NYT has gained subscribers like crazy since they became all Donald Trump all the time. Same for CNN.

If you want to understand all sides of an issue today there is no single source. So you have to get out of the echo chamber. But then where do you go? The internet contains a vast wasteland of clickbait and crackpots. So people think, “well at least on FB I liked what I got” so they go back for more crack. We need an intervention...badly.
__________________

transmitterdan is online now  
Closed Thread

Tags
import

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Might or Might not have made the biggest Mistake of my life jaygatsby Monohull Sailboats 89 13-01-2019 14:23
I love cruising because it teaches humility zboss General Sailing Forum 38 17-09-2014 19:38
Knowing Your Boat's Limitations . . . otherthan Monohull Sailboats 13 07-07-2010 04:45

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:32.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.