In Bound Sub (Ocean to Chesapeake Bay)

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yeah, it can get pretty busy with the shipping and the military. It seems like whenever I'm in a hurry to cross the shipping channels especially Thimble Shoal Channel it's busy.

I am rarely on the Elizabeth River or even down towards Hampton. Usually I'm either coming down the Bay and heading into Little Creek to press up fuel and water at Cobb's or coming out of Cobb's after stopping coming in from offshore and heading up the Bay. The channel is usually pretty straightforward to cross there.

[Cheechako]

I've seen the boomers coming through Puget Sound on the surface. They push a huge bow wave on the nose for their size when on the surface...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I rarely on the Elizabeth River or even down towards Hampton. Usually I'm either coming down the Bay and heading into Little Creek to press up fuel and water at Cobb's or coming out of Cobb's after stopping coming in from offshore and heading up the Bay. The channel is usually pretty straightforward to cross there.

How far North are you?

I grew up about 70 miles North of here so there was rarely any traffic to deal with when we were on our small power boats as teens. Bayside or seaside was about the same and sometimes we fished/skied both sides in the same day trailing the boats over

Yeah, I don't even like being inside the HRBT (Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel) when shipping and navy traffic is busy.

I actually missed a container ship once headed South coming out of the dark about to cross the Thimble Shoal Channel. It was 10:30 PM and there was lots of light pollution from the city ahead and I simply missed it on my visual scans. (plus it was hiding behind my jib) I had no instruments then. No AIS etc. The pilot called me asking what my plan was.....? He had been tracking my radar reflector.

Other times they have these ops going on and they are moving boats all over the place. Once I was turned by a Coast Guard 29'r who came speeding up to me very fast (they can go 45 knots) after I had sailed NW heading to Kiptopeke.

I was all set for the predicted wind which was rotating toward the West which would allow me to begin to point toward my destination but with them turning me back East I ended up heading back the way I had come after I tacked. When I got over near the Bridge (CBBT) and had tacked to head North again a Navy patrol boat came up and said I had to sail between them and the bridge which would have been very tough unless I motored so I said the hell with it and headed in after 4 hours sailing and getting no where.

The patrol boat passed me in Little Creek at high speed and the guys were all waving. They had been very nice when they approached me a couple hours earlier. It was Friday Night nearing 5 pm and they were excited about the weekend as most on that boat were in their early to mid 20's


https://www.uscg.mil/Assets/Article/...boat-small-ii/

[thomm225]

Second sub. Pictures not as good. Plus sail down

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thomm225

How far North are you?

I'm based in Annapolis. I'm a delivery skipper so I'm all over the place. Seen subs in Norfolk, LIS, St Thomas, I think Charleston once. Lots of surface ships including Navy "making continuous turns to starboard" off the Virginia Capes (degaussing?).

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I'm based in Annapolis. I'm a delivery skipper so I'm all over the place. Seen subs in Norfolk, LIS, St Thomas, I think Charleston once. Lots of surface ships including Navy "making continuous turns to starboard" off the Virginia Capes (degaussing?).

I hear them on Channel 16 talking about their continuous turns but not sure about the details.

I was Marines not Navy but have mainly been on Navy Bases and most of the navy techs that I have hired that were on Carriers are clueless to that type thing

Lots of Navy up your way though.

A couple years ago, I was anchored on the Eastern side of the bay which was great until the wind rotated from SE to SW during the night bring waves into my anchorage.

Anyway, after a bumpy wake up and coffee, I sailed off anchor (suspected engine problem) and headed WNW which was the best I could do into a SW Wind with less than 20' LWL on a full keel boat. I was anchored near Smith's Beach just North of Cape Charles.

So after finally getting the sails right and autopilot going and dealing with slippery decks I had a chance to look around and finish the coffee.

Looking North I saw a sailboat headed SE toward my anchorage. Most times in the bay, cruisers come straight down motoring usually when the wind is SW.

I was like that's odd. This guy doing that and there's nothing over there he'd want anyway.

So I saw how he was moving and I had position so I thought to pass the time I'd try to stay ahead of him as I headed South.

I watched him sail way in then further South. I suspected he caught a bit of a land effect breeze and then he tacked.

And I was like you're not racing that guy. I thought maybe it was an older vessel heading to some event in Norfolk but after he tacked he was pointing maybe 30 degrees closer to the wind than I was.

Then I guessed race.

Turns out it was a Navy 44 who at this time was actually leading the Annapolis-Bermuda Race which had started in Annapolis the afternoon before. Maybe 2018.

It ended up being the Navy 44 Tenacious and he had the lead for a bit until this other boat with maybe a black jib or main came into view and he had position west. I found this out on the race tracker after I got back. I didn't have a computer onboard that time

That boat was an XP-44 I think with some crazy low rating. He was ahead boat for boat but behind using PHRF handicap

As an ex racer it caused me start to look for a boat with some waterline and a deep fin keel but I ended up staying the course with this Bristol.......for now.

That Navy 44 though is quite a boat

https://www.usna.edu/Sailing/lectures/navy44.php

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I was Marines not Navy but have mainly been on Navy Bases and most of the navy techs that I have hired that were on Carriers are clueless to that type thing.

Ah. Story: Early in my career I was a NAVSEA contractor (SEA 55 Naval Architecture and SEA 50 Ship Design contracts). I was seconded to PMS 377 Amphibious Ship Acquisition Program Office and worked on lots of amphibs including LCAC which you have no doubt seen heading in and out of Little Creek (biggest automatic car wash EVER). During a spec reading session (this was way before computer collaboration tools) I stood up (very junior) and objected to the port nacelle where the Navy pilots sit being air conditioned and the starboard nacelle where the Marines sat waiting to run up a beach only being ventilated. I won the point and all LCAC are fully air conditioned. Someone talked to somone and I got a two-line, handwritten thank you from Commandant Al Gray at LCAC-1 turnover.

Originally Posted by thomm225

Lots of Navy up your way though.

Lots of Navy, not a lot of traffic. We see the YPs out parading like ducklings but that's about it other than rare port calls at USNA and of course the sailing center guys.

Originally Posted by thomm225

It ended up being the Navy 44 Tenacious

I raced on Luders 44s in college but haven't ever had the chance to sail a Navy 44. I've certainly seen them out and raced against them in Governor's Cup and Annapolis to Oxford.

[Telesail]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I find the Navy to be reasonable if you talk with them. USS Illinois caught up to me with their escort just as I approached the Thimble Shoal Channel cut through the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel. They put a patrol boat between me and the sub and they passed just after the cut. Good communication. Great pictures...somewhere.

You are right. 99% of our encounters are reasonable and they are generally pretty straight forward in calling early and providing information.

In the case of the CT encounter, the problem was that they radio operator would not identify the specific vessels they were trying to contact. “Sailing vessel on my port bow, your instructed not to approach within 500 yards...” is not helpful when there are five or six such vessels visible to those of us above the surface and the caller is invisible. This hail was repeated with increasing urgency and we were not alone in asking where the sun was to ensure we were not the offending vessel.

I have subsequently discovered, from a Captain in the US Navy, that the person operating the radio is typically the most junior member of the watch team and so such contacts are often part of their training and they eventually get the hang of it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Ah. Story: Early in my career I was a NAVSEA contractor (SEA 55 Naval Architecture and SEA 50 Ship Design contracts). I was seconded to PMS 377 Amphibious Ship Acquisition Program Office and worked on lots of amphibs including LCAC which you have no doubt seen heading in and out of Little Creek (biggest automatic car wash EVER). During a spec reading session (this was way before computer collaboration tools) I stood up (very junior) and objected to the port nacelle where the Navy pilots sit being air conditioned and the starboard nacelle where the Marines sat waiting to run up a beach only being ventilated. I won the point and all LCAC are fully air conditioned. Someone talked to somone and I got a two-line, handwritten thank you from Commandant Al Gray at LCAC-1 turnover.

Nice.

Those Marines didn't get much A/C usually since they were probably 0300 grunt/Infantry so I;m sure they appreciated it.

I was Marine Air Wing-Tech. We usually had A/C at least part of the time in our tech shops and where some of our radar/IFF equipment was. Sometimes not because since we were still part of the marines and were required to do our share of sweating.

My units were always off on the far side of the runway so we usually had homemade outdoor "facilities" so part of the duty watch in the am was to burn the "droppings" which were in a cut off 55 gallon drum 3rd. Pour in some diesel fuel and light it off! Then have a smoke. This being back in the 70's.

The diesel was available because we ran the whole unit (deployable air traffic control facility) from diesel generators putting out 3 phase 400 HZ power.

[Pegu Club]

Up in home waters, Groton CT, we get a fair bit of submarine traffic, going out and in past Fishers Island NY and race light, last time we saw three at the same time, two going out one coming in. It is entertaining. I do not think there are many who would purposefully approach them though, that takes a special sort of IQ so to speak.

Fair winds,

[thomm225]

Yes, they are very interesting to see but I don't think I'd want to be stuck on one below the surface for weeks on end maybe months.

I know and work with guys that have done it, and they seem to know how to keep themselves busy.

Same with guys stuck on Aircraft Carriers for months and months

I think I'd rather be land based watching the Harriers takeoff and land on Pads cut out in the woods or pass by at speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p_90T-aYO0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdHvt_qetYg

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Telesail

I have subsequently discovered, from a Captain in the US Navy, that the person operating the radio is typically the most junior member of the watch team and so such contacts are often part of their training and they eventually get the hang of it.

It's worse than you think. The radio operator is often in the CIC, not on the bridge. *sigh* Even there we probably can't see the situation awareness display is working from slips of paper based to him by an NCO is on the phone with the bridge. It's remarkably stupid. The US Navy has been talking about strategic comms in the CIC and navigation comms back on the bridge for some time but to my knowledge that hasn't happened.

Originally Posted by thomm225

I think I'd rather be land based watching the Harriers takeoff and land on Pads cut out in the woods or pass by at speed

Try COD on a C-2 landing on an LSD. Not fun.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Try COD on a C-2 landing on an LSD. Not fun.

No thanks.

Can you land a C-2 on an LSD? I thought that was for Helo's

I have trouble enough landing the C-2 (in the simulator) on a normal airstrip. But it will come in nice and slow

Btw, they are about to phase out the C-2 for the Osprey which they finally got to fly correctly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl2dfox95gE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnOw3clRIoI