Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-02-2012, 11:03   #31
Registered User
 
rubyjean's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Haida 26
Posts: 501
Images: 2
Re: Heavy Weather

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khagan1227 View Post
I was a bobber in those cruisers. I've been through 3 hurricanes, one a cat 4. Even in the worst I wasn't too worried, until the flooding alarm came in. Lost a deck hatch that lead to an elevator shaft that serviced 5 decks and caused the flooding. We lost a ship's bell, the elevator hatch, and three superstructure hatches and 75% of our radio antennas.

I can tell you from personal experience that at least one of the cruisers I was on could do a 49 degree roll and still right itself.
I know what you mean. The America got caught in a hurricane in Hong Kong while trying to build enough steam to leave, was very rough when we finnally got out. Had two destoyer escort's behind us. I think they got flight pay & sub pay on that trip. Really felt for them, don't think they could have walked on those ships. ..Michael..

That was amazing to watch..........
rubyjean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 11:33   #32
Registered User
 
Beersmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Boat: 1975 Downeaster 38' Cutter
Posts: 363
Re: Heavy Weather

damn...
Beersmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 11:44   #33
cat herder, extreme blacksheep

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
Images: 56
Re: Heavy Weather

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubyjean View Post
Try sailing the northern lats, let us know how it was..Michael..
is why i dont sail northern lats.....heavy weather is bad enough in warm waters.....
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 12:48   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hudson Valley N.Y.
Boat: contessa 32
Posts: 826
Re: Heavy Weather

Quote:
Originally Posted by msponer View Post
Is it no longer the thinking, or did you just move on?



A Sundeer of course feels aequal to this video), but... I don't agree that these are "survival conditions". The tops look tame and not dangerous, like these have built for a while and are stable. So, yes, maybe hove to if we wanted to go to windward, or close reaching if you are a Sundeer. But they still look reachable or runnable, and not the kind of thing you'd start doing capital-s Survival things unless you felt there was a good chance for a rare and dangerous wave in this set. Or do you guys feel like if the seas look like this then it's likely there'll be a one-in-a-hundred wave that could kill you, a sheer cliff of vertical water that's breaking (as in the Perfect Storm video clip)?
Such Bravado!
mrohr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 13:30   #35
always in motion is the future
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrohr

Such Bravado!
Yes lol there's a couple Sundeer members here on CF and I'm sure I speak for all when I say that we all would be in survival mode in those conditions certainly not going against it.

With a small boat, you have to wonder if you're gonna make it to the tops of those waves or not.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.

s/v Jedi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 14:00   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Oregon
Boat: 57' Laurent Giles Yawl
Posts: 755
Re: Heavy Weather

Oh, I hope not. I aspire to be pretty conservative with the sea. No death wish here.

The first boat, Veronika, is a 65' fishing boat motoring straight into head seas. It looks dramatic, but the waves are not bigger than the vessel, and the few glimpses you get of the horizon, you can see pretty far. Again, it's hard to judge from the video, but you can sometimes even get that around the minor capes of California.

The navy ship is in much bigger weather. The waves are big enough to have that "canyon" feel, where on a small boat you can't see anything in the canyons except the wave on either side of you. But... though the waves are enormous, the tops look pretty mellow, they aren't breaking, they aren't so steep that there are waterfalls down the faces, or any of the stuff that, to me, means "survival storm." It's hard to compare a video from a helicopter to a memory from being on deck of a small boat, but I believe I've sailed in stuff like this, and the biggest thing I was nervous about was it getting worse-- of a wind shift making another set of waves build that add to the current train and make more random and chaotic seas that have a few truly dangerous ones hidden within the field. But the immediate present was not dangerous, though I was worried about breaking something by making a mistake with the sail handling (letting the roller jib unroll in too much wind, or something like that).

But I don't know. I am less experienced than many other people and want to learn more.

Especially after the tragic thing that happened to Triple Stars, where the 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 wave caught them at the wrong moment. Not enough to destroy the boat, but just as bad. And I've read about similar things in accounts of high latitude voyages-- people get comfortable with the prevailing conditions, are happily sailing in an extended Southern Ocean gale for days on end, or whatever, and then get randomly smacked by a statistically rare wave-- pitchpoled or something.

So... That's what I wonder about. If the weather the navy ship is in would really be considered a "survival storm" not because every wave is dangerous, or even 10% of the waves are dangerous, but that maybe, for a small boat (such as mine), there's a chance for 1 wave in 24 hours that destroys the boat, unless you start treating it like a survival storm and break out the series drogue (or whatever your strategy is).

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
With a small boat, you have to wonder if you're gonna make it to the tops of those waves or not.
Really? Maybe I really am midjudging the video from a helicopter. It just seems like all of the splashing is coming from the boat crashing through the waves. The waves that are not being crashed through tend to just have a little white at the tops. But maybe the scale of the enormous navy ship is throwing me off.
msponer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 03:15   #37
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Caribbean
Boat: 38/41 Fountains pajot
Posts: 3,060
Images: 4
Re: Heavy Weather

I activated my epirb just watching this....
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 22:57   #38
Registered User
 
Mr B's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 2,912
Re: Heavy Weather

The thing that makes it look worse or scary,

They are motor vessels going into the waves on the nose,

If they were going down wind, With following seas,

They would not make it onto Youtube because they would be so boring,

Its all in the perception,

Cheers, Brian,
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 00:30   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Oregon
Boat: 57' Laurent Giles Yawl
Posts: 755
Re: Heavy Weather

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
The thing that makes it look worse or scary,

They are motor vessels going into the waves on the nose,

If they were going down wind, With following seas,

They would not make it onto Youtube because they would be so boring,

Its all in the perception,
Yes, that's what I am wondering... Here's a sailboat very happily going downwind in seas that, who knows, could be similiar to those in the first video:

Stu at the helm of Falcon GT on stormy Southern Ocean Seas

Which I feel would look positively boring if one was hove to or fore-reaching in that. Float up, float down, float up, float down... Maybe occasionally the small bits of white water on the tops of the waves would slap the boat and get everything soaked, but I feel that's about it. No danger.

I am self taught-- I just read a stack of books and then took off, so I may have developed the completely wrong idea of what the prevailing idea is. So I am really interested if better sailors would be more cautious and consider at least the second video somewhere on the order of a Survival Situation and time to start on your short list of storm strategies and not just... a wet experience that is mostly about being cautious and very careful-- not screw up and break something, stay double clipped in, crawl forward on deck with both hands holding onto whatever you can, and etc, but otherwise not dangerous at all.

Take a look at the video at 0:27, when they are hit on the beam by a small pokey part of a wave. And another time at 2:45. In the past I've interpreted that as wet, but that's it. Not dangerous at all. And my mental model of the prevailing conditions was that there was not a lot bigger than that, that things were relatively stable and uniform-- no real likelihood of a freak wave could make a knockdown, roll, or pitchpole... Or is a truly dangerous sea randomly in the cards in conditions like this, and it's time to start being very conservative and throw out the series drogue or whatever once you start to get the feeling that you are sailing in canyons and the tops of the waves are foamy and sometimes smacking the boat around a little -- is the real punch lurking nearby?
msponer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 02:10   #40
Moderator Emeritus
 
nigel1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 5,589
Re: Heavy Weather

I can't see the video on this internet link, but if its similar to the one I'm thinking off, the tugs in the video are Abielle Flandre and Abeille Bourbon, operated by Bourbon and contracted to French goverment to provide salvage and assiistance in the English Channel and the SW Approaches.
There is video footage of the Flandre taken from a helicopter where she is really punching into some heavy seas. She was on the way to provide assistance to a disabled tanker. (may have been the Prestige) and the helicopters were used to lift off the tanker crew.

Here's a couple of shots of some typical weather in the North Sea, took them from my tug, we we're towing/hove to with a rig behind us, the tug in the picture was on the same tow as us
Cruisers & Sailing Forums - nigel1's Album: My other boat - Picture

Cruisers & Sailing Forums - nigel1's Album: My other boat - Picture

Weather at the time was Force fair to frightening
__________________
Nigel
Beneteau 473
Manchester, UK
nigel1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 03:52   #41
Registered User
 
SteveT's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Portishead UK
Boat: Dudley Dix Hout Bay 33
Posts: 139
Re: Heavy Weather

This was given to me by a friend. Definitely not weather to be sailing in on any size of ship!Click image for larger version

Name:	image002.gif
Views:	140
Size:	118.3 KB
ID:	36900
__________________
SteveT
Somewhere at sea
SteveT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 07:35   #42
Registered User
 
Mr B's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 2,912
Re: Heavy Weather

Quote:
Originally Posted by msponer View Post
Yes, that's what I am wondering... Here's a sailboat very happily going downwind in seas that, who knows, could be similiar to those in the first video:

Stu at the helm of Falcon GT on stormy Southern Ocean Seas

Which I feel would look positively boring if one was hove to or fore-reaching in that. Float up, float down, float up, float down... Maybe occasionally the small bits of white water on the tops of the waves would slap the boat and get everything soaked, but I feel that's about it. No danger.

I am self taught-- I just read a stack of books and then took off, so I may have developed the completely wrong idea of what the prevailing idea is. So I am really interested if better sailors would be more cautious and consider at least the second video somewhere on the order of a Survival Situation and time to start on your short list of storm strategies and not just... a wet experience that is mostly about being cautious and very careful-- not screw up and break something, stay double clipped in, crawl forward on deck with both hands holding onto whatever you can, and etc, but otherwise not dangerous at all.

Take a look at the video at 0:27, when they are hit on the beam by a small pokey part of a wave. And another time at 2:45. In the past I've interpreted that as wet, but that's it. Not dangerous at all. And my mental model of the prevailing conditions was that there was not a lot bigger than that, that things were relatively stable and uniform-- no real likelihood of a freak wave could make a knockdown, roll, or pitchpole... Or is a truly dangerous sea randomly in the cards in conditions like this, and it's time to start being very conservative and throw out the series drogue or whatever once you start to get the feeling that you are sailing in canyons and the tops of the waves are foamy and sometimes smacking the boat around a little -- is the real punch lurking nearby?
Very good video, Thanks for putting it up.

What sail did you have up at the front or were you motoring in that Video,
Would you call them 4 metre waves.
As that would be what I have called a 4 metre wave on my trip,

I had my Auto pilot going, so I just sat at the back, enjoyed the ride, and let mine do its own thing, I only put my harness on if I went forward onto the deck,

I had about a third of the Genoa up, Mainly to keep me in a straight line in front of the waves,

I am also self taught, Not books tho, Just video's off the net,
I Googled, Sailing in very bad weather,
Taught me how to sail in bad weather, Which you do get out there, As you have shown,

I had probably about 10 days off it, Bad weather and very big waves in a total of 30 days at sea. only 2 or 3 days at a time tho,

I am asking so I can Get another persons opinion on the size of the waves, and also what sail or motor you had going at the time,

Thanks,
Brian.
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 08:12   #43
Registered User
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bundaberg, Qld.
Posts: 2,192
Re: Heavy Weather

I don't think it was "msponer" in the video....

Clue: he talks of "they" not "me" or "we".....
IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
weather

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Multihulls - Heavy Weather (Passive) Handling yeloya Multihull Sailboats 131 10-08-2018 05:24
Heavy Weather John A Weather | Gear, Reports and Resources 3 16-12-2011 14:16
Crew Available: Victoria, BC - Heavy Weather Daysailing Jd1 Crew Archives 11 03-12-2011 08:37
Sea Myths and Sayings Mariners The Sailor's Confessional 5 29-09-2011 13:51
The Loss of 'Kampeska' TigerLilly Seamanship & Boat Handling 0 14-09-2011 05:32

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.