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Old 13-10-2020, 03:00   #241
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

the more one delves into this, the curiouser (more curious?) it gets:
lets start with the Krauts:
there is a "flasher App" that one can use on the mobile. Users can report speedtraps to the App provider & any App user (GPS activated) gets a warning if he is nearing a trap. & now the curiosity: illegal to use by the driver (various court rulings cited) but legal for the co-driver to use & tell the driver! (https://www.test.de/Blitzer-App-Ist-...gal-4417419-0/ - for the inclined Kraut speaker)
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Old 13-10-2020, 03:16   #242
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

& now to the forest people here:
I stand corrected (& apparently Austra is a watered down version of Prussian exactitude in this aspect too):
according to a 2006 ruling of the Higher administartive court (!!!) the flashing of the headlights to warn oncoming traffic of a speedtrap is legal. The use of the horn is not, though!
The "Flasher App" & the POI-warnings of the navs are legal in "the forests" too, but not so devices that detect the Radar emissions.
But care has to be taken: police tries to fine despite contrary court rulings, & to appeal...
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Old 13-10-2020, 03:23   #243
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

& from our forest capital:
" The police welcomes this (these warnings) because then people are slowing down." (https://www.vienna.at/warnen-vor-rad...sagte%20Kumnig.)
Tu felix Austria...
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Old 13-10-2020, 03:56   #244
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Even another State can be "foreign". In California, pedestrians have right of way over traffic. In Illinois, traffic has the right of way. Californians would be divided into the "quick" and the dead.

Ann
In Uruguay you check the plates on oncoming vehicles before crossing the street....( one is black on white... the other white on black).
Uruguayan drivers will stop and let you cross...
Argentine drivers... OK ...porteños... use 'zebra' crossings as some sort of bizzare ranging device...

But then Uruguay is the country that beat Covid by just **asking** its people to do the right thing https://en.mercopress.com/2020/09/26...19-this-is-how

Nice place ... Uruguay ...
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Old 13-10-2020, 03:56   #245
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

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The official explanation zero sense - it is not even rational. In reality, the other driver slows down which is complying with the law. Which is exactly what the police say they are doing by fining a speeding driver. The official intent of the fine is to make the driver to drive slower. Yes, the real intent is to fill the coffers!

Your last point suggests the practice is legal the if the police aren't nearby but is illegal when they are. I have never heard of any other action that only becomes illegal when police are nearby! Is this really written into the legislation anywhere?
It's really no different from standing out on the sidewalk while a buddy breaks into a house. If the cops come by you make a bird call, you only make a bird call if the cops come by so your buddy can scramble out the back before the cops catch him. Making bird calls is not illegal. Making bird calls specifically as a signal is aiding and abetting.

Your second paragraph is an incorrect assessment. If you only flash your lights when no cops are present, the lack of a flash could be a signal (though much more difficult to get enough people doing it to be useful). The point is the signal is specific to aiding law breakers. If you just randomly flash other drivers police PRESENT OR NOT, you could argue it's not a signal to aid those breaking the law. By doing it only when police are present in the area, it's clearly an aid in breaking the law.

The idea you are helping get drivers to follow the law is flawed. If drivers have a high degree of confidence that there are no police ahead, they are more likely to speed as there is little risk of getting a ticket. There is a whole industry built around radar detectors...oddly, those who follow the speed limit to the letter, never seem to buy them.

Of course, google maps with no request from the user notifies you of speed traps, so really flashing headlights is an outdated method.
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Old 13-10-2020, 04:25   #246
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
It's really no different from standing out on the sidewalk while a buddy breaks into a house. If the cops come by you make a bird call, you only make a bird call if the cops come by so your buddy can scramble out the back before the cops catch him. Making bird calls is not illegal. Making bird calls specifically as a signal is aiding and abetting.

Your second paragraph is an incorrect assessment. If you only flash your lights when no cops are present, the lack of a flash could be a signal (though much more difficult to get enough people doing it to be useful). The point is the signal is specific to aiding law breakers. If you just randomly flash other drivers police PRESENT OR NOT, you could argue it's not a signal to aid those breaking the law. By doing it only when police are present in the area, it's clearly an aid in breaking the law.

.................
Well I'm no legal eagle but reading these guys seems to suggest the headlight flasher does meet the description of someone who is aiding and abetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.co...y-to-crime.htm

Nevertheless, interesting discussion!
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Old 13-10-2020, 04:31   #247
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

all POI warnings on mobile phones, Apps, nav-systems illegal in Germany & Switzerland!
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Old 13-10-2020, 05:19   #248
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

Speaking of foreigners:
If foreigners are upset to have had their visas cancelled ...
Why don't they just apply for MasterCards, instead?
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Old 13-10-2020, 05:24   #249
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Well I'm no legal eagle but reading these guys seems to suggest the headlight flasher does meet the description of someone who is aiding and abetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.co...y-to-crime.htm

Nevertheless, interesting discussion!
could be argued too that he's getting somebody to stop illegal behaviour...
(but of course in the end it's all about revenue: here in the forests the revenue from traffic fines is a fixed item in the budget)
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Old 13-10-2020, 13:44   #250
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Well I'm no legal eagle but reading these guys seems to suggest the headlight flasher does meet the description of someone who is aiding and abetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.co...y-to-crime.htm

Nevertheless, interesting discussion!
Opps... Huge typo in my previous post :reface:.

I intended to write "seems to suggest the headlight flasher does NOT meet the description of someone who is aiding and abetting".

Completely different meaning!
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Old 13-10-2020, 13:57   #251
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

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........
(but of course in the end it's all about revenue: here in the forests the revenue from traffic fines is a fixed item in the budget)
I agree, it is mostly about the money. It is one of the few 'taxes' that any individual can choose to pay or not. Don't want to pay this 'tax', don't speed .

There is a very simple method of getting rid of these 'revenue raisers' but we would never get the 99% compliance to make the method work. If every driver stuck to the speed limit for say 6 months, the costs of the equipment would far outweigh the returns and the equipment would be sold off.....

Of course, the lost revenue would have to be raised in some other way and ATM, I prefer the status quo (where I get to choose to pay it or not).
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Old 13-10-2020, 13:57   #252
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

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Opps... Huge typo in my previous post :reface:.

I intended to write "seems to suggest the headlight flasher does NOT meet the description of someone who is aiding and abetting".

Completely different meaning!
I read thru your link...you had it correct the first time (without "not")

Quote: Aiding and abetting is a legal doctrine related to the guilt of someone who aids or abets (encourages, incites) another person in the commission of a crime.

Flashing your lights to warn other drivers is definitely "aiding" them and could easily be argued that it encourages them as it reduces the risk of a ticket when they speed.

About the only argument you could make is does a traffic infraction qualify as a "crime"...but that's going off into the weeds on the subject. The principal still holds.
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Old 13-10-2020, 14:36   #253
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

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I read thru your link...you had it correct the first time (without "not")

Quote: Aiding and abetting is a legal doctrine related to the guilt of someone who aids or abets (encourages, incites) another person in the commission of a crime.

Flashing your lights to warn other drivers is definitely "aiding" them and could easily be argued that it encourages them as it reduces the risk of a ticket when they speed.

About the only argument you could make is does a traffic infraction qualify as a "crime"...but that's going off into the weeds on the subject. The principal still holds.
The flasher does not know if the flashie is speeding or not so is hardly 'aiding' such activity. It is the very opposite of aiding.

And in the USA, it is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution - if you believe Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlight_flashing
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Old 13-10-2020, 14:45   #254
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

In Queensland......

https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/bundaber...ng-headlights/

Been there done that and had the fine to prove it, although it was only $60 at the time.....

Quote:
Myth Busters – flashing your headlights

“It is ok to flash my headlights at other drivers as a warning when there are police around?”

INCORRECT

Although you may feel that you are doing someone a favour, it is against the law.

Several provisions under the law apply, ranging from a traffic offence dealt with by a traffic infringement notice with a $188 fine, up to being arrested for obstructing/hindering an officer and an appearance in court. In this case the punishment carries a maximum of 40 penalty units or 6 months imprisonment.

Why shouldn’t drivers do this?

Everyone would have witnessed dangerous acts on the road and wished that a police officer was there to pull that other person over. Hypothetically, if a driver was performing a dangerous act and was warned by headlight flashing, then they wouldn’t be stopped and lives could be lost. This action can also dazzle oncoming drivers.

Can I flash my headlights to warn of a hazard?

Yes you can warn of a serious life endangering hazard.

Another MYTH BUSTED thanks to Bundaberg Road Policing Unit
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Old 13-10-2020, 14:45   #255
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Re: Funny Things that 'Foreigners' Do -

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The flasher does not know if the flashie is speeding or not so is hardly 'aiding' such activity. It is the very opposite of aiding.
You can claim you didn't know your buddy was breaking into the house if you get caught sending a signal that the cops are coming by also. They are just as likely to believe you.

The flasher is working under the premise that the flashie is speeding. If you aren't trying to warn them not to speed, why are you flashing your lights at them?

You asked for reason police challenge it. This is the reason. Now if free speech over rides...that's a different question.
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