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Old 25-11-2018, 09:57   #31
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

Climate change causes obesity:
https://grist.org/food/what-does-obe...ays-new-study/

Oh wait!! Obesity causes climate change!
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-consequences/
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Old 25-11-2018, 09:59   #32
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

The idea that if we found out MMGW was insignificant then all the scientists involved would be out of work is so breathtakingly absurd its difficult to know where to begin.

First of all, many of the people drawing conclusions in support of caution with carbon are in adjacent sciences like biology or geology or meteorology and would simply move on to another topic if we closed the case on MMGW.

Furthermore, Iíve never met a single highly educated person devoting their life to science who wouldnt be utterly overjoyed to learn MMGW was insignificant. The idea that the whole scientific community is hell bent on derailing our economy just to keep their mediocre university position is tin foil hat crazy.

Thats why you only hear it from folks like cranky refrigerator salesmen.
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:00   #33
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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I was kind of thinking this thread was actually a gift to you - a chance for you to once again share the nuanced and informed opinion from your years on the inside. (something something cult, i think was the chorus)

I do share your desire to see this thread disappear from CF. The anti-AGW crowd here usually don't bring up anything other than distorted or discredited and frankly OLD BS. And of course, AlGoraphobia and gummint conspiracy and soshulizm! You can find that noise in any reactionary corner of the web.

But I've been told that this attitude is selfishness and intolerance on my part. Fair enough. This post is founded on a new summary of the current state of the science. So - has anyone got any NEW info which casts fresh doubt on AGW? Surprise me.
Usually???

Out of 31 posts already, 19 repeat the same, wrong, ignorant or misleading propaganda that is always repeated by those interested in (mistakenly, since they're actually increasing societal costs to the system they purport to support) promoting their own self interest.
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:02   #34
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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Looks like the French are Rioting over the higher fuel taxes that the MMFWC is saying we need to save mother Gia.

French police fire tear gas at fuel price protesters

I just wanted to thank you for the consideration you're showing me by hastening thread death with your pseudo-cretin act. I know that you aren't one by any stretch of the imagination, but your willingness to debase yourself here to achieve that goal is noble and selfless.
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:08   #35
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

I keep deleting my subscription to this thread, but the posts keep flowing into my email account. ĎJust like experiencing a bad case of diarrhea... I just want it to stop!
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:15   #36
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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Originally Posted by Tornadosailing View Post
Climate change causes obesity:
https://grist.org/food/what-does-obe...ays-new-study/

Oh wait!! Obesity causes climate change!
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-consequences/
Hard to imagine a better example of why people who share your opinion shouldn't be taken seriously (except for the damage they can cause).

The lack of understanding of complex systems (and probably the scientific process) demonstrated by your listing of those two articles as, I assume, a discrediting of climate change theory is perversely amusing.

Guess you've never heard of feedback loops...
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:27   #37
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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The idea that if we found out MMGW was insignificant then all the scientists involved would be out of work is so breathtakingly absurd its difficult to know where to begin.

First of all, many of the people drawing conclusions in support of caution with carbon are in adjacent sciences like biology or geology or meteorology and would simply move on to another topic if we closed the case on MMGW.

Furthermore, Iíve never met a single highly educated person devoting their life to science who wouldnt be utterly overjoyed to learn MMGW was insignificant. The idea that the whole scientific community is hell bent on derailing our economy just to keep their mediocre university position is tin foil hat crazy.

Thats why you only hear it from folks like cranky refrigerator salesmen.
A list of some of the grant money generated by ONE climate scientist. If you think money isn't a factor, you are sadly naive.

Funded Proposals

2015-2018 Quantitative Reconstruction of Past Drought Patterns in Western North America Using Lakes, Stable Isotopes, and Modeling, NSF-P2C2 Program [Principal Investigators: B. Steinman (Univ. of Minnesota-Duluth), M. Abbott (Univ. of Pittsburgh), M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.)] PSU award (M.E. Mann): $145,002

2012-2017 WSC-Category 2 Collaborative: Robust decision-making for South Florida water resources by ecosystem service valuation, hydro-economic optimization, and conflict resolution modeling, NSF-Water Sustainability & Climate Program [Multi-institution award (Univ. of Central Florida/Univ. of Florida/Univ. of Hawaii/Michigan Tech. Univ/Univ. South Florida/Univ. of Miami/Univ. of Penn/Penn State Univ). Principal Investigator (Penn State Univ): J.D. Fuentes; Co-Investigator (Penn State Univ.): M.E. Mann] PSU award (J.D. Fuentes/M.E. Mann): $300,514


2011-2014 Megadrought: Local vs Remote Causal Factors for Medieval North America, NSF-Paleo Perspectives on Climate Change Program [Principal Investigator: S. Feng (Univ. of Nebraska); Co-Investigators: Q. Hu, R.J. Oglesby, C.M. Rowe (Univ. of Nebraska), M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.)] PSU award (M.E. Mann): $151,755

2011-2014 Advanced Regional And Decadal Predictions Of Coastal Inundation for the U.S. Atlantic and Gulf Coasts, NOAA-Improving NOAAís Climate Services for the Coastal Zone (Special Competition) [Principal Investigators: B. Horton (Univ. of Pennsylvania), J. Donnelly (WHOI), Reide Corbett (East Carolina Univ.), A. Kemp (Yale University), K. Lindeman (Florida Inst. Tech.), M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.), D. Peltier (Univ. of Toronto, Canada), S. Rahmstorf (University of Potsdam, Germany)] PSU award (M.E. Mann): $120,463

2011-2014 Climate and Society Ė Innovative and Sustainable Collaboration with Senegal, Penn State University-AESEDA program [Principal Investigator: J.D. Fuentes; Co-Investigators: P. Tschakert, J. L. Evans, A. M. Thompson, and M.E. Mann] PSU internal award: $75,000

2010-2013 Development of a Northern Hemisphere Gridded Precipitation Dataset Spanning the Past Half Millennium for Analyzing Interannual and Longer-Term Variability in the Monsoons, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigators: Q. Hu, S. Feng, R.J. Oglesby (Univ. of Nebraska), M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.)] PSU award (M.E. Mann): $249,800

2010-2012 Climate Literacy Zoo Education Network, NSF-Arctic Research & Education [Principal Investigators: A. Grajal (Chicago Zoological Society), S.R. Goldman (Univ. of Illinois-Chicago), M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.)] PSU award (M.E. Mann): $32,733

2009-2013 Quantifying the influence of environmental temperature on transmission of vector-borne diseases, NSF-EF [Principal Investigator: M. Thomas; Co-Investigators: R.G. Crane, M.E. Mann, A. Read, T. Scott (Penn State Univ.)] $1,884,991

2009-2012 Toward Improved Projections of the Climate Response to Anthropogenic Forcing: Combining Paleoclimate Proxy and Instrumental Observations with an Earth System Model, NSF-ATM [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann; Co-Investigators: K. Keller (Penn State Univ.), A. Timmermann (Univ. of Hawaii)] $541,184

2008-2011 A Framework for Probabilistic Projections of Energy-Relevant Streamflow Indices, DOE [Principal Investigator: T. Wagener; Co-Investigators: M. Mann, R. Crane, K. Freeman (Penn State Univ.)] $330,000
2008-2009 AMS Industry/Government Graduate Fellowship (Anthony Sabbatelli), American Meteorological Society [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.)] $23,000

2006-2009 Climate Change Collective Learning and Observatory Network in Ghana, USAID [Principal Investigator: P. Tschakert; Co-Investigators: M.E. Mann, W. Easterling (Penn State Univ.)] $759,928

2006-2009 Analysis and testing of proxy-based climate reconstructions, NSF-ATM [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.)] $459,000

2006-2009 Constraining the Tropical Pacificís Role in Low-Frequency Climate Change of the Last Millennium, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigators: K. Cobb (Georgia Tech Univ.), N. Graham (Hydro. Res. Center), M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.), Hoerling (NOAA Clim. Dyn. Center), Alexander (NOAA Clim. Dyn. Center)] PSU award (M.E. Mann): $68,065

2006-2007 Acquisition of high-performance computing cluster for the Penn State Earth System Science Center (ESSC), NSF-EAR [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann, Co-Investigators: R. Alley, M. Arthur, J. Evans, D. Pollard (Penn State Univ.)] $100,000

2003-2006 Decadal Variability in the Tropical Indo-Pacific: Integrating Paleo & Coupled Model Results, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigators: M.E. Mann (U.Va), J. Cole (U. Arizona), V. Mehta (CRCES)] U.Va award (M.E. Mann): $102,000

2002-2005 Reconstruction and Analysis of Patterns of Climate Variability Over the Last One to Two Millennia, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann, Co-Investigators: S. Rutherford, R.S. Bradley, M.K. Hughes] $315,000

2002-2005 Remote Observations of Ice Sheet Surface Temperature: Toward Multi-Proxy Reconstruction of Antarctic Climate Variability, NSF-Office of Polar Programs, Antarctic Oceans and Climate System [Principal Investigators: M.E. Mann (U. Va), E. Steig (U. Wash.), D. Weinbrenner (U. Wash)] U.Va award (M.E. Mann): $133,000

2002-2003 Paleoclimatic Reconstructions of the Arctic Oscillation, NOAA-Cooperative Institute for Arctic Research (CIFAR) Program [Principal Investigators: Rosanne D'Arrigo, Ed Cook (Lamont/Columbia); Co-Investigator: M.E. Mann] U.Va subcontract (M.E. Mann): $14,400

2002-2003 Global Multidecadal-to-Century-Scale Oscillations During the Last 1000 years, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigator: Malcolm Hughes (Univ. of Arizona); Co-Investigators: M.E. Mann; J. Park (Yale University)] U.Va subcontract (M.E. Mann): $20,775

2001-2003 Resolving the Scale-wise Sensitivities in the Dynamical Coupling Between Climate and the Biosphere, University of Virginia-Fund for Excellence in Science and Technology (FEST) [Principal Investigator: J.D. Albertson; Co-Investigators: H. Epstein, M.E. Mann] U.Va internal award: $214,700

2001-2002 Advancing predictive models of marine sediment transport, Office of Naval Research [Principal Investigator: P. Wiberg (U.Va), Co-Investigator: M.E. Mann] $20,775

1999-2002 Multiproxy Climate Reconstruction: Extension in Space and Time, and Model/Data Intercomparison, NOAA-Earth Systems History [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann (U.Va), Co-Investigators: R.S. Bradley, M.K. Hughes] $381,647

1998-2000 Validation of Decadal-to-Multi-century climate predictions, DOE [Principal Investigator: R.S. Bradley (U. Mass); Co-Investigators: H.F. Diaz, M.E. Mann]

1998-2000 The changing seasons? Detecting and understanding climatic change, NSF-Hydrological Science [Principal Investigator U. Lall (U. Utah); Co-investigators: M.E. Mann, B. Rajagopalan, M. Cane] $266,235

1996-1999 Patterns of Organized Climatic Variability: Spatio-Temporal Analysis of GloballyDistributed Climate Proxy Records and Long-term Model Integrations, NSF-Earth Systems History [Principal Investigator: R.S. Bradley (U. Mass); Co-Investigators: M.E. Mann, M.K. Hughes] $270,000

1996-1998 Investigation of Patterns of Organized Large-Scale Climatic Variability During the Last Millennium, DOE, Alexander Hollaender Postdoctoral Fellowship [M.E. Mann] $78,000
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:34   #38
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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Hard to imagine a better example of why people who share your opinion shouldn't be taken seriously (except for the damage they can cause).

The lack of understanding of complex systems (and probably the scientific process) demonstrated by your listing of those two articles as, I assume, a discrediting of climate change theory is perversely amusing.

Guess you've never heard of feedback loops...
When everything is caused by climate change and everything causes climate change, how is it that every scenario wouldn't be a feedback loop?
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:36   #39
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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Can we just delete this thread now and save us all a lot of heartache and time and waste

Plus a million !


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Old 25-11-2018, 10:37   #40
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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A list of some of the grant money generated by ONE climate scientist. If you think money isn't a factor, you are sadly naive.

Generated by ONE scientist who is a member of, or leading a team of scientists, grad students, technicians, lab costs, field work, computer time, etc.


If you think that climate scientists are getting rich off of this (Have you ever actually met a real scientist, or have any idea how little they get paid?), and that oil execs aren't getting richer by selling as much oil as quickly as possible... you are sadly naive.
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:43   #41
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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The migrant caravan is due to Climate Change...so the elite tell us.
Don't forget child sex trafficking why hillary lost, and racism, and, and...
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:43   #42
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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The scientists employed by big government knew before most that global warming was a tax scam. Their job was to help suppress or discredit that knowledge.
So every scientist working for nasa is an out and out liar? That's major league fraud. How do they all keep it under wraps? Them and all the other climate scientist around the planet, all telling huge fibs and falsifying data.

2 questions, why is the planet warming? If greenhouse gasses aren't playing a major part then what is? They're the only smoking gun in town.

And if greenhouse gasses aren't having an effect then why not? The bedrock is rooted in some very establish physics, if the gasses aren't doing what they are predicted to then every piece of electronics works by some very convenient good luck.

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Old 25-11-2018, 10:45   #43
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

I still keep hearing climate change is going to ruin the World unless something is done.
However Iíve not yet heard what the something is?
We should live like Al Gore, the creator of the internet and climate change?

Cmon guys, give me a solution?

That is the problem I have, near as I can tell no solution is really proposed that isnít really some get rich quick scheme, for someone like good ole Al.
I want to fly my private jet to Europe, which will burn more fuel than most families do in a year, but so that I donít feel guilty, I give ole Al a bunch of money and buy carbon credits, I assume these carbon credits must be some form of chemical that neutralizes green house gasses?
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:45   #44
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

I'm ok if you are suspicious of all the billionaire scientists as long as you are equally suspicious of the billionaires doubting the science. In reality this ship has sailed. We can all see it. If we want to still have harbors and marinas for our boats in the future, not to mention food, for our kids and their kids, we better make plans... it would be far more foolish and naive not to.
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Old 25-11-2018, 10:48   #45
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Re: FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

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Generated by ONE scientist who is a member of, or leading a team of scientists, grad students, technicians, lab costs, field work, computer time, etc.


If you think that climate scientists are getting rich off of this (Have you ever actually met a real scientist, or have any idea how little they get paid?), and that oil execs aren't getting richer by selling as much oil as quickly as possible... you are sadly naive.
The fact that oil company execs get rich by selling oil was never in question. That's the point of selling oil after all. But to pretend that money cannot motivate someone being paid by the government or university is absurd.

By rightfully pointing out that actual scientists don't get paid much, are you then saying that people who don't make much money can't be bought? The fact is that almost anyone can be bought, and those people who make the least are cheaper to buy. It's especially easy to use money to bias someone's research if they also think they're doing the "right" thing for their "worthy" cause.
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