Flat Earth Debate

[girdasso]

It never ceases to amaze me how the human brain which is capable of wonderful creative scientific or artistic achievements can in other individuals be brainwashed and hard wired to believe incredibly stupid beliefs. A huge proportion of the world's population are brainwashed from an early age and very rarely can they be convinced to change their beliefs.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by girdasso

It never ceases to amaze me how the human brain which is capable of wonderful creative scientific or artistic achievements can in other individuals be brainwashed and hard wired to believe incredibly stupid beliefs. A huge proportion of the world's population are brainwashed from an early age and very rarely can they be convinced to change their beliefs.

That's so far from the truth to be actively dangerous.

Everyone, each and every one of us, is prone to believe what we want to be true. We all tend to lie to ourselves much deeply than we lie to other people.

It's an essential part of the human condition.

And if you honestly believe that this is only something that other people do, because nefarious forces are "brainwashing" them, you're lying to yourself and being lied to, both.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

In doing my helicopter licence, one get to do with the distance between point A and B. On longer trips, the shortest distance is not in a straight line anymore.

We got to talk about this the last time someone started a flat earth thread. Most sailors know about this stuff but I am going to add clarification to your statement anyway:
On longer trips, the shortest distance is not a straight line on a flat chart unless you are travelling due true north or due true south. These routes are called great circle routes and appear as a plotted curve on a chart and to follow this shortest path your heading will constantly be changing (slightly). A Rhumb line route from point A to point B will follow the same heading but will send you on an indirect path which on a flat chart will be plotted on a straight line.

[FatBear]

Originally Posted by Kolchac

if you are arguing with a complete idiot, there is a big chance, that he is doing the same.

Quote of the day award.

[Buzzman]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Agreed. One can be selectively anti-science; acknowledging verifiable facts in one area while embracing "alternative facts" in another. And it's true that the anti-vaxxers were largely lefty nut-munchers before the right decided to sacralize anti-Covid-19-vaxx as part of their culture.

So yes, we can be both. But I do wonder if societies which tend towards "magical thinking" are more susceptible to this kind of error. After all, if you're willing to believe in gods, ghosts or leprechauns, then why not other unverifiable scenarios?

Is it not also true that the anti-vax mob is overly inhabited by hardcore religious types, especially evangelicals..??


It's not just the granola muesli, crystal-gazing wannabe hippies that are clearly readily open ot the more bizarre theories.


I've hypothesised that beoing of the 'gullible' persusasion makes one more likely to believe in sky fairies, random conspiracy theories and anti-vax theories....


So 'God is great' in the South, as are anti-govt ideologies, anti-immigrant ideologies, racist ideologies, anti-vax ideologies, flat-earthers, etc etc.

There does seem to be some sort of correlation with Tea Party True Believers and other radically out there ideologies.



What do others think of this hypothesis?

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by girdasso

It never ceases to amaze me how the human brain which is capable of wonderful creative scientific or artistic achievements can in other individuals be brainwashed and hard wired to believe incredibly stupid beliefs. A huge proportion of the world's population are brainwashed from an early age and very rarely can they be convinced to change their beliefs.

True, but it's an understatement.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

On longer trips, the shortest distance is not a straight line on a flat chart unless you are travelling due true north or due true south.

Or along the equator
Or using a gnomonic map projection

[StoneCrab]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Why not?


The Constitution implies that everyone has a right to an opinion, but if the support is flimsy on not based on a full reasoning and reproducible evidence, I am NOT required to respect the content of that opinion or the intelligence of the person holding it.


A classic example. I say "there is a pink teacup orbiting the earth in geosynchronous orbit." My support is that others have told me it is there. You can't prove it is not there, because it is too small. But there is no evidence that it is there, and so there is no reason to waste time on the discussion or assign ANY level of validity to the belief. It is simply a silly statement and a groundless belief. I expect you will snicker at me, decide I'm gullible, and forget the whole thing before the echo dies. I can maintain my believe in the pink tea cup, but I have reasonable expectation that you will believe me or make make any accommodation, only that you not beat my belief out of me with a stick.


Some people are gullible and some take stupid pills.

Why Not? Well for me, I've decided that I can look beyond a few quirks in a person and still enjoy them. I don't write off people because they have opinions that differ from mine. I actually enjoy hearing what others think and finding out why the think that way. It is like spice in an otherwise boring existence.

It is also why I enjoy traveling. It introduces me to alternate values and life styles. I don't have to argue for my way. Just listen, ask questions and have some respect.

This isn't to say that I don't have limits on how far I'll take this. I am open minded as long as it is an open discussion. When it turns into a sales pitch or pressure to adopt the opposing opinion, I tap out.

What I don't like are people who get mean when someone has a different opinion or belief. I have no respect for that.

[Buzzman]

I also forgot to answer the OPs query regarding tales of derring do in the furious fifties and higher.
David Lewis 'Icebird' is a good one. He took a couple knockdowns and had to leave his boat at the French base for a year and complete his polar circumnav the following year. Book 'Icebird' is widely available.

The Tucker family sailed their steel mono 'Snow Petrel' to Cape Denison and Mawson's Hut, and on to the French base. Book 'Snow Petrel' is available to purchase, and a video of the trip is on YT.
Several members of the Ocean Cruising Club (OCC) have recorded trips to the Antarctic Peninsula, especially to Deception Island and places south, in the OCC Journal Flying fish, which is free to access online - search for 'flying fish archive'.

[siamese]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Seems to me we have a lot of flat-earther types around here. Just take a look at the various Covid-19 and climate change threads. Not hard to find anti-science people. Flat earthers are cut from the same cloth.

People that disagree with you on Covid and climate are not necessarily "anti-science" people. They're just people that have reached different conclusions than you, and there's no need for you to characterize them in a negative way or group them together.

Aside from that, this an entertaining thread.

[girdasso]

I read recently that 2500 years ago a Greek mathematician / philosopher calculated the diameter of the earth pretty accurately by measuring the length of the shadow of two columns a known distance apart.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by girdasso

I read recently that 2500 years ago a Greek mathematician / philosopher calculated the diameter of the earth pretty accurately by measuring the length of the shadow of two columns a known distance apart.

Eratosthenes! (He of the sieve method of finding prime numbers!)
Actually, he based it on the distance between a deep well in one city and a vertical stick in another city.

https://www.aps.org/publications/aps...06/history.cfm

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Is it not also true that the anti-vax mob is overly inhabited by hardcore religious types, especially evangelicals..??

Actually, it's not.

An Anti-Vaccine Film Targeted To Black Americans Spreads False Information

What do others think of this hypothesis?

I think that it your start your chain of logic with false assumptions, nothing later has meaning.

[Ike]

Like nutty theories? Those of you who are Engineers, physicists, work for NASA, or have a background in high level math should read Physics on the Fringe: https://www.amazon.com/Physics-Fring.../dp/0802715133

My fav is Circlons: no I won't try to explain it. https://living-universe.com/

This guy has developed a completely alternative theory of Physics. Name is James Carter. (no relation to the former president)

[Ike]

BTW: in my younger years I was a Fire Control Technician (Gun Fire, not fires) In FT school we spent a lot of time on ballistics. Two of the factors on aiming really big naval guns is compensating for the curvature of the earth, and for rotation of the earth under the trajectory of the shell. If you don't, when firing over the horizon, you miss the target. The longer the range the farther off you miss. Same applies for missiles, Of course that applies only to ballistic missiles that don't have their own "smart" guidance systems. Which most do now days. Back in the 60's though it was part of the ballistics problem.

So how do flat earth believers account for that?