Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-03-2014, 07:36   #76
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,009
Images: 6
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by mottseng View Post
You can't see intelligence in eyes and dolphins are not somebody. They are not HUMAN and therefore do not have reasoning ability.
I'm going to agree with you that you can't "see" intelligence in the eyes. Not in humans, not in dolphins, not in dogs. There is just way too much to intelligence to imagine that you can see it in the eyes.

On the other hand, your assertion that because they are not human, therefore dolphins cannot reason is just plain idiotic. The assumption that ONLY humans can possibly have the ability to reason is just amazingly arrogant. There is a fairly substantial body of proof that many animal species are capable of reasoning.

Dolphins, apes, dogs, cats... The list just goes on and on of the various species that are quite clearly capable of a fairly high degree of reasoning.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 09:03   #77
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 2,980
Images: 7
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
On the other hand, your assertion that because they are not human, therefore dolphins cannot reason is just plain idiotic. The assumption that ONLY humans can possibly have the ability to reason is just amazingly arrogant. There is a fairly substantial body of proof that many animal species are capable of reasoning.

Dolphins, apes, dogs, cats... The list just goes on and on of the various species that are quite clearly capable of a fairly high degree of reasoning.
I recall well documented examples of chimps using tools like catching ants using blades of grass and then teaching their offspring the same trick.
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 09:33   #78
Registered User
 
DDabs's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,895
Images: 27
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

I think it's funny to base an argument on "scientific research" when dealing with what animals think.

How the hell does one know what goes through an animal's brain, whether it be a dog, cat, ape, dolphin, or human? You cannot read minds. There is no possible way to know exactly what they are thinking, it's one of the great wonders of life...
DDabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 10:26   #79
Registered User
 
mottseng's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario Canada
Boat: 1985 Canadian Sailcraft CS30
Posts: 502
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
Mottseng, do you have a dog?
First off why do you ask? Secondly I would gamble that I know far more about dogs and training them then you do.
mottseng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 10:29   #80
Registered User
 
mottseng's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario Canada
Boat: 1985 Canadian Sailcraft CS30
Posts: 502
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
I'm going to agree with you that you can't "see" intelligence in the eyes. Not in humans, not in dolphins, not in dogs. There is just way too much to intelligence to imagine that you can see it in the eyes.

On the other hand, your assertion that because they are not human, therefore dolphins cannot reason is just plain idiotic. The assumption that ONLY humans can possibly have the ability to reason is just amazingly arrogant. There is a fairly substantial body of proof that many animal species are capable of reasoning.

Dolphins, apes, dogs, cats... The list just goes on and on of the various species that are quite clearly capable of a fairly high degree of reasoning.
Show me the scientific proof.
mottseng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 10:33   #81
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 2,980
Images: 7
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
I think it's funny to base an argument on "scientific research" when dealing with what animals think.

How the hell does one know what goes through an animal's brain, whether it be a dog, cat, ape, dolphin, or human? You cannot read minds. There is no possible way to know exactly what they are thinking, it's one of the great wonders of life...
Just shooting from the hip, I would say that one doesn't need to know precisely what is "going through an animals mind" in order to conclude if an animal can reason. We can infer though actions and observables.
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 10:42   #82
Registered User
 
Prairie Chicken's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada or Spain
Boat: Jeanneau SO 43 DS
Posts: 1,162
Images: 1
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Show me the scientific proof.
That was found in the link on Post #1!

People used to believe animals could not feel pain. We know they do. People used to believe they did not grieve a lost companion or human. We--those of us who live with them--know they do. Those beliefs were due to the arrogance of mankind.

These animals think, reason, love, learn. My experience with them is my proof. The only issue in question is the levels of their capabilities.
__________________
Prairie Chicken
><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.
`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`· ...¸><((((º>
Prairie Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 11:00   #83
Registered User
 
mottseng's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario Canada
Boat: 1985 Canadian Sailcraft CS30
Posts: 502
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

In an attempt to close the loop on all of this I offer the following. Yes, that was an amazing video and there are dozens of amazing videos showing animals interacting with humans. There are many debates both scientific and philosophic on whether or not animals can reason, I for one believe that they can't. Those of you that believe they can, who am I or anyone else to change your mind. All I tried to do is represent the can't argument. I base my argument on the fact that dolphins and other animals do not possess cognitive thinking in terms of understanding themselves to think about cause and effect, truth and falsehood or good and bad. Reasoning is closely identified with the ability to self-consciously change beliefs, attitudes, traditions and institutions, and therefore with the capacity for freedom and self-determination. So I hold fast to my stand on animals not possessing reasoning ability as they do not have the ability for cognitive thinking.

This thread at times has been a heated debate with some insults thrown in both directions. I for one apologize if I have insulted anyone.

The short of it is that we can agree to disagree!!
mottseng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 13:04   #84
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,009
Images: 6
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by mottseng View Post
Show me the scientific proof.
Oh, that's good. Like you even care about scientific proof.

This would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

No... Wait a minute... Yes, actually, it is pretty funny, no matter how sad it might also be.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 13:07   #85
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,009
Images: 6
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
There is no possible way to know exactly what [animals] are thinking...
Well duh. Has anyone claimed to know exactly what any animal is thinking? No. Nonetheless, it is still possible for them to demonstrate cognitive reasoning abilities. That has nothing to do with knowing "exactly what they are thinking."
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 13:11   #86
Registered User
 
DDabs's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,895
Images: 27
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by mottseng View Post
First off why do you ask? Secondly I would gamble that I know far more about dogs and training them then you do.
So.... is that a yes or no?
DDabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 13:29   #87
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Oh, Coops!

Did You ever envisaged what be the effect of sharing this video???



By the way, I heard on radio some days ago as Parliament of India passed a law defining the dolphin as "Person not being human"
Has something to do with dolphins protection, I suppose
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 13:53   #88
Moderator Emeritus
 
Coops's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern NSW.Australia
Boat: Sunmaid 20, John Welsford Navigator
Posts: 9,549
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
Oh, Coops!

Did You ever envisaged what be the effect of sharing this video???



By the way, I heard on radio some days ago as Parliament of India passed a law defining the dolphin as "Person not being human"
Has something to do with dolphins protection, I suppose
Good isn't it? Post a feel good little video to put a smile on somebody's dial and as an antidote to all the doom and gloom that seems to get pushed upon us from everywhere and see what happens.

It's cool though, this way at least more get see it to find out what the frenzy is all about.

Coops.
__________________
When somebody told me that I was delusional, I almost fell off of my unicorn.
Coops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 17:21   #89
Registered User
 
SmartMove's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Cruising the Eastern Caribbean
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 779
Images: 1
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Coops, it was a great video and an even better story. It put a smile on my face. I don't know why some people feel compelled to spread doom and gloom and generally want to destroy happy moments -- but this made my day THANKS!

Robyn
__________________
Time is a companion that goes with us on a journey. It reminds us to cherish each moment, because it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we have lived. JEAN LUC PICARD, Captain of the Starship Enterprise
SmartMove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 07:03   #90
Registered User
 
mottseng's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario Canada
Boat: 1985 Canadian Sailcraft CS30
Posts: 502
Re: Dolphin Asks Diver For help

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Oh, that's good. Like you even care about scientific proof.

This would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

No... Wait a minute... Yes, actually, it is pretty funny, no matter how sad it might also be.
Your rant makes no sense at all. What is so funny and what is sad? Is it funny or sad that I ask that you substantiate your statement with evidence.

If you can't substantiate as requested then stop posting ridiculous comments.
mottseng is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Divers Rescue Dolphin After It 'Asks' For Help GordMay Flotsam & Sailing Miscellany 17 25-01-2013 13:08
Seagypsy Woman Asks - GordMay Families, Kids and Pets Afloat 107 01-10-2009 14:10

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.