Cruisers' Lack of Etiquette for Commercial Vessels

[GordMay]

I don’t see anything about curb markings in the BC manual ➥ http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications...al/most_pm.pdf

Often, a white curb designates passenger pick up or drop off. The green curb is for time limited parking. The yellow curb is for loading, and the blue curb is for disabled persons with proper vehicle identification. The red curb is for emergency vehicles only - fire lanes (no stopping, standing, or parking).

[Capt Phil]

I had to chuckle reading this thread from Finditsurfit and other responders. While it has been many years since I drove boats commercially in British Columbia, it seems that not much has changed regarding the behaviors of 'recreational boaters' in that area. I remember very well the hot springs location in the islands off Tofino and Uculet and when the BC Parks and Recreation installed the dock back in the 70's. When weather kicks up off the west coast, boaters both pleasure and commercial, run for cover. Towing bundle booms into a protected anchorage only to be met by 4-6 pleasure boats scattered across a bay identified by signage and shore bridles for boom tie-ups was a maddening experience. It is not easy to handle log booms of several hundred thousand board feet of bundle logs in a confined anchorage to make your tie up even if there are no other vessels anchored. In the final analysis, I ignored the anchored pleasure boats and secured the boom only to be met by cursing and fist shaking from the pleasure boaters. A couple of rounds in the air from my 30-30 cleared out the anchorage in about 5 minutes. Those days are long gone... no more logs to tow, more restrictive gun laws (at least in BC), but the disdain that pleasure boaters have for those who earn their living on the water has not changed it appears.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

I had to chuckle reading this thread from Finditsurfit and other responders. While it has been many years since I drove boats commercially in British Columbia, it seems that not much has changed regarding the behaviors of 'recreational boaters' in that area. I remember very well the hot springs location in the islands off Tofino and Uculet and when the BC Parks and Recreation installed the dock back in the 70's. When weather kicks up off the west coast, boaters both pleasure and commercial, run for cover. Towing bundle booms into a protected anchorage only to be met by 4-6 pleasure boats scattered across a bay identified by signage and shore bridles for boom tie-ups was a maddening experience. It is not easy to handle log booms of several hundred thousand board feet of bundle logs in a confined anchorage to make your tie up even if there are no other vessels anchored. In the final analysis, I ignored the anchored pleasure boats and secured the boom only to be met by cursing and fist shaking from the pleasure boaters. A couple of rounds in the air from my 30-30 cleared out the anchorage in about 5 minutes. Those days are long gone... no more logs to tow, more restrictive gun laws (at least in BC), but the disdain that pleasure boaters have for those who earn their living on the water has not changed it appears.

I believe you and the OP are making a mistake in this characterization. You confuse a recreational boater that believes he/she is in the right because of poor signage or inadequate knowledge with someone who has "disdain" for the poor working man. If the recreational boater intentionally got in the way of the work boats despite proper knowledge that would demonstrate "disdain." What many boats in this situation are demonstrating is simply "confusion" or lack of knowledge and commercial boaters threatening them or shooting guns in the air does nothing to help or change that.

Jim

[Mule]

I read this with interest and I agree signs are needed, as one said not many are clairvoyant.

The question that begs to be answered is this, (insofar someone brought up guns) When is it appropriate to: A. Fire a round off across the bow of a boat that is dangerously threatening your safety when you are the stand up boat? & B. To hole same boat with a 12gage slug?

Just asking???

[Joli]

Why not just head up a bit so "you" cross the upwind boat? If it was that close it would have not taken much course change on your part to "make tree's".

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I can't really complain. I have not had too many bad encounters with commecial vessels (perhaps because I am usually able to avoid these encounters before they ever develop, but still).

It's not written in the COLREGS, but I think a lot has to do with size and draft. It's just elementary common sense that a larger, heavier, deeper draft vessel ought to get a lot of consideration from smaller, lighter, more maneuvrable bessels.

I have more trouble with small mobos and sailboats, than with commercial vessels. I was motoring down the main channel in Poole Harbor, which is not that wide, and my draft is such that I cannot leave the channel without going aground. A smaller sailboat, small enough to sail out of the channel, was out sailing, and was tacking back and forth across the ship channel, insisting on his rights as a sailing vessel, causing havoc among the boats who could not maneuver out of his way.

Another time, I was running up the Solent before about a 35 knot wind, and another sailboat came beating up on a collision course. He was the stand-on vessel, because I was upwind from him, but I really hoped he would fall off a few degrees and let me get by, because I could not avoid him without jibing, and that is a terrifying maneuver in a 35 knot wind.

Do you think he did fall off a few degrees? No, he just stared my coldly in the face and kept coming until I crash-jibed just a boatlength away from him. What a d*ck.

I've not had such experiences with commercial ships.

[Capt Phil]

I think Jkleins got it right. Having spent many years driving boats from Alaska to Costa Rica, it has been my experience that the vast majority of recreational boaters are not only civil but tend to go out of their way to give way to commercial vessels, be they towboats, fishing boats or freighters. My Barclay Sound experience involved alcohol, I believe, and macho behavior on the part of 2-3 out of the 5-6 pleasure boats, both sail and power, anchored in a clearly marked ( 4x8 plywood sign that read BOOMING GROUND - NO ANCHORING) protected cove. I would have had no problem if they hoisted anchor until our boom was secure then rafted up to the boom or re-anchored a safe distance away in the cove. Firing off a couple of rounds was in response to some pretty threatening behavior seemed like a good idea at the time. I recall discussing the event with an RCMP buddy in Port Alberni some time later and he told that as long as I wasn't shooting at someone, they had more important things to deal with than a couple of warning shots. This all occurred close to 50 years ago and a lot has changed since then. As a footnote, be very careful not to take firearms into Mexico from the US, you can lose your boat and your freedom if the Mexican Navy boards you and finds a firearm. On a delivery from Los Angeles to Alaska a number of years ago, I stopped in Roche Harbor and had the owner package up his sidearms and one rifle and mail them to himself, General Delivery, in Haines, Alaska. This way he avoided problems with the Canadian Customs and Immigration passing through Canadian waters. I believe you are allowed one long gun and one shotgun but NO handguns at all... cheers, Capt Phil

[Mariness]

Some of these responses are downright scary.
I don't "disdain" people who work on the water, heck, I'm married to one, and I try to give them as much consideration as I safely can.
I DO "disdain" people, regardless of class/boat type/employment status, who consider it appropriate to fire a gun in order to make their point or get their way.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Findsurfit... Rwidman who is new was just trolling for the kind of reaction you gave him.

We really don't tolerate that kind of baiting and if you note, he was the only one who was not supportive.... so most of us would just ignore him

that says enough

Fair winds

New? I joined in February, 2008. How many years do you have to belong befor you are not considered "new"?

Trolling? Hardly. I was presenting my opinion. I believe I mentioned another poster who "was not supportive".

The OP seems to think he "owns" a public dock and anyone else who uses it or refuses his suggestion to anchor and dingy ashore is a "jerk" (his words).

If the dock has signs prominently placed indicating that the dock or section of the dock is reserved for his use, he was in the right (mostly). If not, he was the "jerk" for telling another boater to move from a public dock so he could use it. Suppose the boater or someone in the party was handicapped or there were other reasons why docking was necessary. Suppose they didn't have a dingy or just didn't want to go to the trouble of using it when there was available dock space? How is a boater, possibly from out of town, supposed to know that white paint on a dock has some special meaning?

Now if the forum owner or moderator feels my comments are inappropriate, he or she can e-mail me, call me out in public, or delete my account, that's fine. There's not much point in having a discussion forum where everyone agrees on everything. I would appreciate being able to present an opposing view without a personal attack from another member.

[Get-a-Life]

I have been following this post with interest from the beginning and must say I agree with the last post from "rwidman"

I was always taught that there are two sides to every story, so far we keep hearing (reading) one version, and quite frankly I don't like what I am reading.

My leisure time is far more important to me than my working time, sure I earn money to supplement my leisure (and lots of it by the hour) but in real terms it pales into insurgnificance to what I would charge for my leisure time.

But according to the OP his time is worth more than anyone elses?

From the tone of the "rant" I am guessing the request to move was in a similiar tone.

A white line means nothing other than be aware of the edge and don't fall in.

KenM

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Mariness

I DO "disdain" people, regardless of class/boat type/employment status, who consider it appropriate to fire a gun in order to make their point or get their way.

So is the answer I assume from your comment is "never" no matter what the circumstances?

Again; just asking.

[Bill Lee]

I'm a recreational boater and the use of Government docks is quite important to me (99% of the time its for my dinghy). I respect all commercial use of dock space and I recognize that such use IS in the public interest. Take water taxi's as an example. The users of a water taxi ARE members of the public and they would not be able to make use of various islands or landings without a designated commercial zone at government docks. In BC government docks are usually painted red or blue (the gangway) and if part of the dock has been painted (whatever colour) it does not take a rocket scientist to recognize that the paint symbolizes some special use. The problem IS some boater's attitude and their feeling of entitlement. Instead of them asking why they aren't allowed to dock up they should be asking why they are allowed to... Its not so subtle a difference. One attitude is the attitude of entitlement and one isn't. I presume that I do not have the right to dock up in a painted spot unless there is signage or an official who says I am. Its like boater's who don't ask permission to tie up their dinghy at a private marina (its stealing). Usually permission is granted without a fee or sometimes a small fee.

[Mariness]

Originally Posted by Mule

So is the answer I assume from your comment is "never" no matter what the circumstances?

Again; just asking.

No, not "never". For example, if someone fires a gun at you first, you would probably be justified in returning the gesture.

[sundown]

Thank you Bill Lee! I agree with you 100%. It does not take rocket science to deduce that if an area of dock is painted a special colour it means it has a use other than moorage.
As to whose time is more important - mine or someone who is trying to work for a living common courtesy should make the right choice self evident.
I was a commercial fisherman in British Columbia for roughly 40 years and made it a point to go out of my way to try and make the boating holidays families on vacation more enjoyable if I could. I have to say though that the arrogance of some compatriots I have in the pleasure community make me wonder if I have joined the "Dark Side". In all fairness the "Professional" side has it boneheaded poster children too and we are all guilty of stupidity at one time or another.

[Capt Phil]

I believe that sundown is far more representative of the commercial side of the boating industry than I am. In those days I was a hot head on a short fuse but still tried to see the good in other folks on the water. It is great to see another ex-fisherman on this thread, one who has been there and seen it up close and personal. The good folks in both the commercial and recreational side far outnumber the inconsiderate people. I still miss trolling off the west coast out of Port Alberni and seining in Rivers Inlet... a much simpler life. Unfortunately, the Springs (Kings) and the sockeye have gone the way of the Dodo. In those days you could at least make a buck!

[Pelagic]

Hi Jim

I agree that a discussion should have different opinions, which was not my objection with rwidman’s cheesy comment and the OP’s reaction.

As far as advising him to raft up….. in actuality CRD docks expect people to co-operate: as you can read in that Retreat Cove link
“Rafting up is a viable option, and is mandatory at all CRD docks.”

I think the bottom line is cooperation amongst boaters at a Public dock…. and if you are tied up to an unloading area for a while, you should help a guy to offload his passengers, who may not be as steady around boats as we owners are.