Climate Change, Part III

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by bobofthenorth

Not that long ago there was a worldwide scientific consensus that the world was flat.

It is possible to draw a strong correlation between the number of Baptist preachers and the number of prostitutes in large cities but it seems unlikely that either the preachers or the whores are causative.

Bob

In 240 BC Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth. At that time it was know to be spherical.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by conachair

As has been pointed out already, that's time based, not cumulative.

You state that out of approx 400ppm co2 in the atmosphere 384 are due to "natural" sources and 16 down to human activities.

In the world of science that's just plain wrong. Ignoring any arguments about exact percentages your entire understanding of cumulative increases appears completely flawed.


"Over the last 150 years, carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations have risen from 280 to nearly 380 parts per million (ppm). The fact that this is due virtually entirely to human activities is so well established that one rarely sees it questioned."

Yet delfin will question it.

RealClimate: How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities?

Sorry Cona, but I'm not the only one. The NOAA data shows no warming, even though CO2 has increased. Now isn't that odd? Maybe it's because CO2 and earth temperatures are not related one to the other....

UN IPCC Expert Reviewer Dr. Vincent Gray: ‘There is no correlation whatsoever between carbon dioxide concentration and the temperature at the earth

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Now the embarassing NOAA data showing virtually no warming in the face of increasing CO2 so even their sorry correlation is kaput. Geesh, these guys just can't get a break.

Air surface temperatures have moderated.

However using Spencer's NOAA data for the past 2 decades, there are been a 0.67C increase.

Latest Global Temps « Roy Spencer, PhD

I can cherry pick with the best.

Ocean temperatures have increased

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by bobofthenorth

Not that long ago there was a worldwide scientific consensus that the world was flat.

It is possible to draw a strong correlation between the number of Baptist preachers and the number of prostitutes in large cities but it seems unlikely that either the preachers or the whores are causative.

There is also a strong correlation between car crashes and ambulances. I wonder if we outlawed ambulances we could drive down auto fatalities....hmmmm. Maybe I can get a grant studying that.

Unfortunately for the AGW club, even the correlation they dressed up as proof of cause is out the window. The earth hasn't been warming. Sad for those Canadians hoping to become the Hawaii of the north, but true.

[jongleur]

Delfin said:

Hydrogen? All for it, and it has a great future.

Delfin, you seem to misunderstand many things,
one of which is that Hydrogen is not a (primary)
fuel, it is at best a storage device.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Delfin

UN IPCC Expert Reviewer Dr. Vincent Gray: ‘There is no correlation whatsoever between carbon dioxide concentration and the temperature at the earth

Do you know what it takes be an IPCC expert reviewer?

"Expert reviewer for the IPCC" doesn't mean that they asked him to review material -- all it means is that he asked to see the draft report. The only real requirement to be a reviewer is to sign an agreement not to publicly comment on the draft."

Vincent Gray is a chemist based in New Zealand. He is a retired coal industry researcher, climate author, and founder of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition.

The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition was launched in May 2006 with the aim of "refuting what it believes are unfounded claims about anthropogenic (man-made) global warming."

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Air surface temperatures have moderated.

However using Spencer's NOAA data for the past 2 decades, there are been a 0.67C increase.

Latest Global Temps « Roy Spencer, PhD

I can cherry pick with the best.

Ocean temperatures have increased

You may be able to cherry pick, but you sure can't read a chart. Since the greatest anomaly over the last 30 years from the new NOAA data was in 1998 at .67 degrees C, and every other data point is well below that your statement "However using Spencer's NOAA data for the past 2 decades, there are been a 0.67C increase" is clearly false.

And in the spirit of trashing any data source you deem associated with the oil industry, I have to reject whatever comes from skepticalscience. Here's a bit on its operator: Media Fail: John Cook’s Atom Bombs | NoFrakkingConsensus. At least Anthony Watts was a weatherman....

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Do you know what it takes be an IPCC expert reviewer?



Vincent Gray is a chemist based in New Zealand. He is a retired coal industry researcher, climate author, and founder of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition.

The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition was launched in May 2006 with the aim of "refuting what it believes are unfounded claims about anthropogenic (man-made) global warming."

Well jack (ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator, CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor, IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor), at least he's actually in a field of study that has some relevance to what he is writing about. Unlike John Cook who apparently does research in psychology. You have a rather disturbing trait of attacking the credentials of those you disagree with....

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by jongleur

Delfin said:

Hydrogen? All for it, and it has a great future.

Delfin, you seem to misunderstand many things,
one of which is that Hydrogen is not a (primary)
fuel, it is at best a storage device.

You mean hydrogen doesn't burn? That would be news to these guys: Hydrogen Fuel

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Delfin

At least Anthony Watts was a weatherman....

John Cook graduated from university, and makes no pretenses. Watts never finished his degree.

Skeptical Science is maintained by John Cook, the Climate Communication Fellow for the Global Change Institute at the University of Queensland. He studied physics at the University of Queensland, Australia. After graduating, he majored in solar physics in his post-grad honours year. He is not a climate scientist. Consequently, the science presented on Skeptical Science is not his own but taken directly from the peer reviewed scientific literature. To those seeking to refute the science presented, one needs to address the peer reviewed papers where the science comes from (links to the full papers are provided whenever possible).

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Delfin

You may be able to cherry pick, but you sure can't read a chart. Since the greatest anomaly over the last 30 years from the new NOAA data was in 1998 at .67 degrees C, and every other data point is well below that your statement "However using Spencer's NOAA data for the past 2 decades, there are been a 0.67C increase" is clearly false.

I said 2 decades which is 1993. 1998 was a strong El Nino. I admitted I was cherry picking. Try the same admission. Confession is good for the soul.

BTW

Carl - Thanks for the free advertising.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Well jack (ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator, CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor, IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor), at least he's actually in a field of study that has some relevance to what he is writing about. Unlike John Cook who apparently does research in psychology. You have a rather disturbing trait of attacking the credentials of those you disagree with....

BTW - my grad work at the University of Houston was in Studies of the Future and included modelling.

John Cook studied physics, graduated and did post grad work in physics..

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Sorry Cona, but I'm not the only one. The NOAA data shows no warming, even though CO2 has increased. Now isn't that odd? Maybe it's because CO2 and earth temperatures are not related one to the other....

UN IPCC Expert Reviewer Dr. Vincent Gray: ‘There is no correlation whatsoever between carbon dioxide concentration and the temperature at the earth

Answering completely the wrong question again.

You are the only one stating that of the latest near instant increase to approx 400ppm, only 16ppm is down to human activities.

So since pre industrial times when it was fairly stable around 280/260ppm for possibly 10,000 years, if humans have added just 16ppm, where did the other 100 odd come from?

[stevensuf]

It looks like the sun is going into a solar minimum which is associated with general global cooling, kiss goodbye to global warming for the time being. And if we look at the global temperatures over the last 10,000 years , they have only been heading one way, down!

Interglacial periods last on average 10-12,000 years, its been about that same time period since the last full on glacial period.

[Group9]

You Disagreers (see we can think up catchy labels, too) are arguing to the wrong bunch. We, like you, already enjoy a great lifestyle. How do you plan to get the billion plus in the developing world to forego our level of lifestyle?

What if they all want houses, and cars, and electricity and yachts and vacations and want it for their families, too?

Or is the argument going to be, "They've never had that stuff. They won't know what they are missing?"

If the plan is to just Al Gore them (Do as I say, not as I do) then good luck with that.