Bitcoin and Gold/silver coins as payment abroad

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rbk

Did I say it was a good idea? No, I’m not the OP either. And while it is relatively easy to transfer money between most financial institutions in developed countries most of the time there are certain times and places it can become very difficult, one is getting fiat into digital currency. One example I listed above and similar happened in Mexico (Quintana Roo) hurricane knocked out com’s and international banking was impossible for almost a week, no ATM withdrawals, credit cards didn’t work (no one was using cards wipers anymore nor trusted them) was a bit of a sh*t show with people getting desperate, most got family tor wire money WU. I had a couple weeks worth of pesos so didn’t effect me, similar principle as this thread.

In the third world, having a couple weeks of expenses in local cash, which you just pull out of an ATM beforehand, is a perfectly decent solution to the problem.


I almost don't use cash in daily life in civilization any more, but off the beaten track a SMALL reserve of ready cash is certainly a good idea. That's a far cry from $50 000 of gold.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rbk

That’s only if it’s undeclared. Generally there is no limit on how much (cash not coke) you can bring into many countries as long as it is declared and traceable but there are many countries I wouldn’t do it either legally or illegally.

Declaring $50 000 in gold in a third world country is about equally daft to smuggling it.

That can be 10 years of income to some people in such countries -- well worth killing a gringo over. The customs agents will not believe that you are carrying around that kind of gold for any good purpose, nor that it has any clean origin. If they don't make up an excuse to seize it on the spot, there is a good chance they will tip off the local criminals.

Please just don't do this. This is spectacularly stupid. If you refuse to use the banking system out of some irrational fear or hatred, then use crypto, preferably one pegged to a real currency rather than the spectacularly volatile Bitcoin.


"Tether", for example, is pegged to the U.S. Dollar. So if you carry that, you remove the speculative volatility of Bitcoin, Ethereum, et. al. -- Tether coins are basically crypto-dollars, much better suited for keeping actual spending money as opposed to speculative investment money which you can afford to lose. See: https://cryptoadventure.org/5-most-p...e-cryptoverse/

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rbk

Yup in YT, everyone who’s lived here for any real time has some gold kicking around in a drawer somewhere. Some still barter with it but it’s a gamble when prices are high and you don’t know the quality but generally the placer that comes out of the ground here is fairly clean. Yes those days are long gone but for a used truck, tramel, quad, pump whatever generally <5k a few vials can be still be traded.

And how many cruisers stop off in the YT on their RTW trips? You are in an oddball location that isn't particularly relevant to most cruisers.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rbk

That’s only if it’s undeclared. Generally there is no limit on how much (cash not coke) you can bring into many countries as long as it is declared and traceable but there are many countries I wouldn’t do it either legally or illegally.

If they decide it's suspicious, they can confiscate it even if you declare it.

I don't agree with it but carrying large sums of cash across borders, it really is guilty until proven innocent...and they often make it really hard to prove your are innocent.

And as Dockhead suggested...they may just pass the info on to unsavory types who now know exactly where you have it stored.

Even if none of that happens, declare $50k in bullion and you can expect to get the full treatment tearing your boat apart to make sure there isn't something else hidden there. They won't hesitate to take drills to check in empty spaces and it's on you to put it back together.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Declaring $50 000 in gold in a third world country is about equally daft to smuggling it.

That can be 10 years of income to some people in such countries -- well worth killing a gringo over. The customs agents will not believe that you are carrying around that kind of gold for any good purpose, nor that it has any clean origin. If they don't make up an excuse to seize it on the spot, there is a good chance they will tip off the local criminals. pretty clear you don’t read or don’t understand the English language because as I said “...there are many countries I wouldn’t do it either legally or illegally” totally escaped you or you just want to keep beating this dead horse. While $50k in some counties can be a lifetimes wages there are plenty of other countries where it would be perfectly acceptable, most of the Mediterranean, Europe, Scandinavia, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many others.

Please just don't do this. This is spectacularly stupid. If you refuse to use the banking system out of some irrational fear or hatred, then use crypto, preferably one pegged to a real currency rather than the spectacularly volatile Bitcoin.
Or this other statement that’s gone completely over your head...” Did I say it was a good idea? No, I’m not the OP either” or the other half dozen times I’ve reiterated this sentiment. Also seems to be a bit of delusional thoughts here as I’ve also NEVER stayed I don’t trust banks only that they are not infoulable and should also not be 100% relied upon. Yes I have bank accounts, traditional investments et al but I don’t wander off into the wild blue with a credit and debit card and have blind faith that I’ll have uninhibited access to my funds.

"Tether", for example, is pegged to the U.S. Dollar. So if you carry that, you remove the speculative volatility of Bitcoin, Ethereum, et. al. -- Tether coins are basically crypto-dollars, much better suited for keeping actual spending money as opposed to speculative investment money which you can afford to lose. See: https://cryptoadventure.org/5-most-p...e-cryptoverse/

Oh I’m also very aware of tether but you’re clearly not aware of their ongoing questionable dealings, holdings, market manipulation and more? Keep reading, but I know you won’t and you’ll only be back here flogging the same bs.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

And how many cruisers stop off in the YT on their RTW trips? You are in an oddball location that isn't particularly relevant to most cruisers.

It’s all relative. What you consider normal isn’t to many, many others just like $50k might be a years wage to some people, other will blow at a casino on one table and not think twice about it. To think that I insinuated cruisers would have to stop here to exchange gold just goes to show how narrow your thought process is.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If they decide it's suspicious, they can confiscate it even if you declare it.

I don't agree with it but carrying large sums of cash across borders, it really is guilty until proven innocent...and they often make it really hard to prove your are innocent.

And as Dockhead suggested...they may just pass the info on to unsavory types who now know exactly where you have it stored.

Again I’ll highlight this for those that missed or just straight up ignored it “...there are many countries I wouldn’t do it either legally or illegally”

Even if none of that happens, declare $50k in bullion and you can expect to get the full treatment tearing your boat apart to make sure there isn't something else hidden there. They won't hesitate to take drills to check in empty spaces and it's on you to put it back together.

Why does it have to be gold? You indicated $50k in gold would be a huge burden and require vast storage facilities (clearly shows the lack of understanding) I simply pointed out it’s a small amount. Could be bonds, cash, a rare painting. Generally when high value items or cash are exported legally from a country they are required to be reported upon departure and then reported upon entry to new country. Anyone legally transpiring large quantities of monetary value legally would probably have the common sense to insure it before departing (something else that escapes you and DH) it happens a lot and just because you don’t have the ability to carry funds above $100 don’t assume the rest of the planet can’t or doesn’t. Done

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rbk

Why does it have to be gold? You indicated $50k in gold would be a huge burden and require vast storage facilities (clearly shows the lack of understanding) I simply pointed out it’s a small amount. Could be bonds, cash, a rare painting. Generally when high value items or cash are exported legally from a country they are required to be reported upon departure and then reported upon entry to new country. Anyone legally transpiring large quantities of monetary value legally would probably have the common sense to insure it before departing (something else that escapes you and DH) it happens a lot and just because you don’t have the ability to carry funds above $100 don’t assume the rest of the planet can’t or doesn’t. Done

Who suggested it required vast storage facilities? The comment about having a vault was if you are avoiding the banking system...presumably you aren't going to use their safe deposit vaults at a bank because now you are back into the banking system. If you have a vault with long term cash supplies, that's going to be expensive to properly secure and risky if anyone finds out...now you get bad movie plots about a heist stealing a few million in gold bullion.

When high values of cash are exported legally, they are typically done thru the banking system so you can trace the source and it's legality. Art and other physical stores of great value would expect to have ownership documentation and information on how it was obtained...usually including bank records showing the purchase. Again, if you can't provide the backing for where it came from, expect them to treat it as suspicious.

Go try to insure $50k in gold bullion carried in your bilge. Tell us how that works out. Even better, tell us if they will include a clause that specifically states, they will reimburse you if the authorities take it at the border. Insurance generally won't touch confiscation by authorities for violations of the law...and since it's largely a guilty until proven innocent scenario, the insurance company isn't going to want to touch it until you can provide proof of your innocence.

Huge difference between having a grand or two on hand for emergencies vs $50k to avoid paranoia over the banking system when it introduces 10 times the risks and headaches.

[wsmurdoch]

Random thoughts here...

If you carry British gold sovereigns into a country, do you declare them at their face value of 1 UKL or their intrinsic value of 300 UKL. James Bond had his in Goldfinger if memory serves.

There were once "CIA bracelets" that were links of gold designed to be broken up into individual links which might be useful if things got a little hot. They were sort of emergency cash on the wrist.

What about that rock on your wife's left ring finger. Would it be useful getting the boat lifted off the reef? Cops and customs don't seem to notice worn jewelry.

[Hermia II]

If you go sailing I presume it is to enjoy life. Then why forcing your self to dig around exchanging precious metals or Bitcoin. Use a credit card and have one or two spare cards if you need to cancle one of them. Some cash in US$, and you are all set. Don't complicate things.

[RickG]

Escrow sites that facilitate Bitcoin sales like Paxful let you settle payments to TransferWise and banks. We use TransferWise to pay vendors and Schwab for ATM withdrawals. There are better ways to liquidate bitcoin, but this one example.

Cheers, RickG

[LymanZerga]

I just came back from Antigua. There is a cafe at Jolly Harbour that accepts Bitcoin Cash (not to be confused with BTC!).

You should also explore the Cash app. They provide a Visa card tied to your account. If you store your Bitcoin with them you should be able to use the card against BTC current value. Or convert BTC to USD and then use it via the card. Hope this helps.

[Gingersnap]

We offered coins for major services done on boat projects where we live in SF area. Their eyes lit up at the thought.... but the answer is they prefer cash. We ended up going to the coin stores to convert our coins to cash.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

Random thoughts here...

If you carry British gold sovereigns into a country, do you declare them at their face value of 1 UKL or their intrinsic value of 300 UKL. James Bond had his in Goldfinger if memory serves.

There were once "CIA bracelets" that were links of gold designed to be broken up into individual links which might be useful if things got a little hot. They were sort of emergency cash on the wrist.

What about that rock on your wife's left ring finger. Would it be useful getting the boat lifted off the reef? Cops and customs don't seem to notice worn jewelry.

The authorities are a little smarter than that...Also unlike the 1960's movies, it's pretty easy to scan your briefcase and either see the coins directly or the lead casing to hide them. Now for all practical purposes, you just proved to the authorities, you were doing something nefarious.

So what's your response when you ask for your 100pounds back and they hand you a 100pound note back since you claimed the face value officially? Either you admit, you were smuggling bullion or you take a huge loss.

Now, if you want to use moderate size but extremely high quality gems in your wife's jewelry...that's possible but a big hassle unless you are in the business and can obtain and sell at wholesale rates with small transaction fees. Markups on jewelry are huge and pawn shops give you a fraction of the retail price. If you take it to extremes with say a $50k rock, if they notice, expect them to take it and you can prove later that you weren't gaming the system.

Keep in mind, Bond was never worrying about where the money came from and could take huge percentage losses for the convenience...and that's ignoring that most of it was fantasy.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by RickG

Escrow sites that facilitate Bitcoin sales like Paxful let you settle payments to TransferWise and banks. We use TransferWise to pay vendors and Schwab for ATM withdrawals. There are better ways to liquidate bitcoin, but this one example.

Cheers, RickG

At this point, you are using the banking system, so the govt is tracking you and there are fees involved, so you aren't keeping the bank out of your pocket.

I believe these were the two primary goals in using it for transactions abroad.